KudoZ home » English to German » Art/Literary

German State / State

German translation: Staat

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:German State / State
German translation:Staat
Entered by: Wenke Geddert
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

14:38 Jan 9, 2004
English to German translations [PRO]
Art/Literary / Art History
English term or phrase: German State / State
The following is from a text on daggers from Germany (ca. 1935 - 40) and talks about "The Punzierungs Mark":

"The Crown emblem indicates the German State in which the piece was assayed, and the style of the Crown can vary accoring to the particular State. The image should be well formed (...)".

If the first term "German State" means "Deutsches Reich", what does the second "State" refer to? Whilst we are talking about "Bundesländer" today, what was the equivalent during that period? Alternatively, other suggestions welcome.

With thanks.
Wenke Geddert
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:38
Staat
Explanation:
like Sachsen, Preußen

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-01-09 14:44:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the former sovereign states the German Reich consisted of,
now more or less the Bundesländer
Selected response from:

Sonja Schuberth-Kreutzer
Local time: 09:38
Grading comment
Herzlichen Dank! Und natürlich auch für alle weiteren Kommentare und Vorschläge, die alle sehr weitergeholfen haben.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +8Staat
Sonja Schuberth-Kreutzer
4 +1Land / Länder
Deborah Shannon


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +8
Staat


Explanation:
like Sachsen, Preußen

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-01-09 14:44:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the former sovereign states the German Reich consisted of,
now more or less the Bundesländer

Sonja Schuberth-Kreutzer
Local time: 09:38
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in pair: 115
Grading comment
Herzlichen Dank! Und natürlich auch für alle weiteren Kommentare und Vorschläge, die alle sehr weitergeholfen haben.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  davidgreen: yes and I believe BOTH States in the text refer to Staat
1 min
  -> me too

agree  Nicole Tata: with David
4 mins

agree  Hans G. Liepert: Die Reichsverfassung von 1871 bezeichnet ausdrücklich Staaten, nicht Länder/Bundesländer. Die heutigen Bundesländer weichen doch erheblich ab: NRW/Rheinland-Pfalz/Niedersachsen usw. The first "State" refers to "Reich"
1 hr

agree  Deborah Shannon: zweimal Staat (die Großschreibung von "State" ist m.E. ein Rechtschreibefehler im Ausgangstext)
20 hrs

agree  ingo_h: wie David
2 days 1 hr

agree  RedWolf: I agree with David
2 days 13 hrs

agree  Silvia Grabler
2 days 15 hrs

agree  Rajiv Arora
6 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
german state / state
Land / Länder


Explanation:
Während der Weimarer Republik zumindest:

"Die Weimarer Reichsverfassung wurde die Grundlage für den Scheinföderalismus der Weimarer Republik.
Dies zeigte sich vor allem an folgenden Regelungen:

* Die deutschen Einzelstaaten wurden zu Ländern herabgestuft und weitgehend entmachtet.
* Die Gesetzgebungskompetenzen des Reiches weiteten sich zu Lasten der Länder aus.
* Die Reichsverwaltung wurde erheblich ausgebaut und ihre Kompetenzen wurden deutlich erweitert.
* An die Stelle des Bundesrates trat der Reichstag, in dem die Länder mit Regierungsmitgliedern oder Beauftragten je nach Einwohnerzahl vertreten waren. ..."

Reich ist nicht gemeint, da stimme ich David zu.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 20 mins (2004-01-09 19:58:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here\'s a link which suggests the crown continued to be used in hallmarks despite the fact that Germany was a Republic after 1918.

http://www.medalnet.net/Imperial Pilot Badges.htm

An expert on military insignia says:

\"This was a highly transitional time for Germany, which saw many Communist (Spartacus) and other anti-imperialist movements on the rise, these movements ran strong in the Naval service, and in fact several airship were captured by such movements during the chaos associated with the end of the war. Clearly, all did not share support for the Monarchy, represented by the Crown symbol so some Naval personnel may have chosen to wear the Army version for political reasons. Regardless, the Decree of 1920 clearly directs the “Reichskrone” on the badge for for Naval personnel and badge without the crown for Army personnel. The two Zeppelin Badge designs would also differentiate service as being either Army or Naval, a very important statement for those who served. Aside from traditional service rivalries, the Army turned over its airship to the Navy in 1916. Both versions continued to be worn by qualified service members into the 1940s.\"

I think this is indicative that the situation was anything but clear cut (like the political boundaries).



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 1 min (2004-01-10 11:40:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I agree with Sonja after all. Thanks Hans for pointing out the obvious - officers may have kept old pre-1918 weapons until the mid-1940s, but if the assay mark is a crown symbol, the weapon must predate 1920 and can only have been assayed in a state (Staat) of a Reich, not a federal state (Land).



    Reference: http://www.bpb.de/publikationen/2T39E6,2,0,Geschichtlicher_R...
Deborah Shannon
Germany
Local time: 09:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 58

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dierk Widmann
39 mins

disagree  Hans G. Liepert: die Weimarer Republik hatte keine Krone (Zeichen der Monarchie!) in der Punzierung! Zum Begriff Land siehe Antwort bei Sonja
49 mins
  -> Please see the additional note

agree  ingo_h: evtl. doch Länder und Krone, auch nach 1918. Bei Waren aus Edelmetallen wird auch heute noch die Krone punziert! vgl. www.kreiller.de/haushaltswaren/ und goldschmiede-bender.de/wissen/metall/ legierungen/feingehaltgesetz.html
2 days 1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search