Higher National Certificate/Diploma

German translation: some important background information

12:18 Jan 22, 2003
English to German translations [PRO]
/ job description
English term or phrase: Higher National Certificate/Diploma
"qualified to HNC/HND level or better in an engineering subject"

Part of a job description.

So, how would you phrase this in German (for Austrians...)?
Kay Fisher
German translation:some important background information
Explanation:
The HND/HNC qualification is offered by technical colleges BUT ALSO BY UNIVERSITIES (typically those that used to be Polytechnics some years ago). As such, it is officially seen as a higher education DEGREE COURSE. The applications procedure is the SAME AS FOR A BA/BSc, eg. via UCAS. The HND course takes 2 years (full-time), after which it is possible to change onto year 2 of a BA/BSc.
In term of translation, I would agree with Steffen P and call it a HND/HNC - Fachhochschulabschluss, perhaps with some further explanation.

Reference: I’ve just helped my little brother to apply for one.

Selected response from:

Nicole Tata
Local time: 20:37
Grading comment
Thanks to all, I knew this would throw up an interesting discussion. Especially thanks to Steffen and Nicole. Steffen, I'm sorry I confused you initially.

Edith, I know you are touting for Fachschule, but in Austria this is a qualification which is not even equivalent to A-level/Matura. See: http://www.lfs-tamsweg.at/weiterbildung.htm

I think Fachhochschule is about as close as I can get, and my own internet research also pulled up this reference: http://eurotuteur.ac-strasbourg.fr/a_comparison_of_vocational_qua.htm

So, thanks to all for the interesting discussion.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5Entweder Fachhochschule
Steffen Pollex
4 +1some important background information
Nicole Tata
4Fachschulabschluss
EdithK
4HNC/D-Abschluss
Alan Johnson
4HND-Abschluss
Stephanie Bohnerth
4 -1HNC/HND Qualifikation
Doris Marka
4 -2erwarb einen Hochschulabschluß
Steffen Pollex


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
erwarb einen Hochschulabschluß


Explanation:
I think "national" means that this degree is valid nationwide in your country? In Europe this is the rule and, therefore, I thin it does not necessarily have to be translated, not even "for Austrians".

Steffen Pollex
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 922

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Doris Marka: sie spricht ausdrücklich von "not full university degree"
22 mins
  -> Das hat sie aber erst dazugeschrieben, als meine Antwort schon da stand.

disagree  Christine Tochtermann: you cannot really call it a "Hochschulabschluss", as it is not at university level. It is somewhere in between a "Berufsausbildung" and a university degree, normally from a college, not a university. So perhaps not necessary to translate?
25 mins
  -> This she remembered when my answer was displayed already. Not my fault.
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
HNC/HND Qualifikation


Explanation:
da im deutschsprachigen Raum die Schulsysteme unterschiedlich sind und somit die Bezeichnungen,würde ich diese Qualifikation folgendermaßen erklären:
Österreich - technisch gesehen am ehesten vergleichbar mit einem HTL-Abschluß (Höhere Technische Lehranstalt); diese Schulform schließt mit Matura ab und ist stark praxisbezogen und berufsorientiert.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-22 13:11:15 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Nach 3-jähriger Berufserfahrung erlangt man den Titel Ingenieur.



Doris Marka
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 225

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nicole Tata: HND/HNC is a higher level than a vocational secondary school qualification
34 mins
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47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
HND-Abschluss


Explanation:
Hello Kay,

That's what I found on the German site of British Council.
For more detailed information follow the below link.

HTH,

Stephanie


    Reference: http://www.britishcouncil.de/d/education/pubs/ausb0003.htm
Stephanie Bohnerth
Germany
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 60
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52 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
HNC/D-Abschluss


Explanation:
I think this would be valid, possibly with a note that it is _roughly equivalent_ to the German "Staatlich geprüfter Techniker", which also a two-year course with a strong vocational flavour.

Alan Johnson
Germany
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 587
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Entweder Fachhochschule


Explanation:
oder die englischen Abkürzungen ausschreiben (nicht als Abkürzungen verwenden, dann weiß wieder keiner was gemeint ist).

Steffen Pollex
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 922

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  EdithK: Steffen, Fachhochschulabschluss a) 12 !!! Jahre Gymnasium mit Versetzung in die 13. Kl. b) Abschlüsse von Fachschulen s.u., die zwar oft für Fachhochschule reichen, aber absolut berufsspezifisch sind, ansonsten kann eine Krankenschwester ein Informatikstu
18 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Fachschulabschluss


Explanation:
Fachschulen gibt es mittlerweile für viele Berufe, auch Krankenschwestern, Erzieher, Berufe unterhalb eines Ingenieurs. Das entspricht dem engl. HNC/HND, auch dahingehend, dass man das Vollzeit bzw. Teilzeit besuchen kann. Dauer ist ebenfalls 2 Jahre. Aufnahmebedingung ist üblicherweise Realschulabschluss und zusätzlich oft noch Abschluss einer Beruffachschule, was auch 2 Jahre dauert. Dies wurde eingerichtet, weil früher z.B. der Erzieher nicht "akademisch" ausgebildet war, man dies jedoch auf EU-Niveau anheben musste, daher sind diese Art Schulen vor max. 10 Jahren entstanden.

EdithK
Switzerland
Local time: 21:37
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4868

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nicole Tata: I don't know much about Fachschulen, do they lead to a Fachabitur? In which case an HND would be at a higher level.
10 mins
  -> No, they don't. I really know what I'm talking about, thinking of Southbank in London and something like Kettler La Roche in Germany.

neutral  yeswhere: Agree with Nicole. You need A levels (Gymnasiumabschluss) to commence HND or OND which is minimum two years at a technical college.
25 mins
  -> No. You need A-levels all right which is NOT Gymansiumsabschluss, Times have changed in Germany. Strange, that these answers come from colleagues who do NOT live in Germany.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
some important background information


Explanation:
The HND/HNC qualification is offered by technical colleges BUT ALSO BY UNIVERSITIES (typically those that used to be Polytechnics some years ago). As such, it is officially seen as a higher education DEGREE COURSE. The applications procedure is the SAME AS FOR A BA/BSc, eg. via UCAS. The HND course takes 2 years (full-time), after which it is possible to change onto year 2 of a BA/BSc.
In term of translation, I would agree with Steffen P and call it a HND/HNC - Fachhochschulabschluss, perhaps with some further explanation.

Reference: I’ve just helped my little brother to apply for one.



Nicole Tata
Local time: 20:37
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 340
Grading comment
Thanks to all, I knew this would throw up an interesting discussion. Especially thanks to Steffen and Nicole. Steffen, I'm sorry I confused you initially.

Edith, I know you are touting for Fachschule, but in Austria this is a qualification which is not even equivalent to A-level/Matura. See: http://www.lfs-tamsweg.at/weiterbildung.htm

I think Fachhochschule is about as close as I can get, and my own internet research also pulled up this reference: http://eurotuteur.ac-strasbourg.fr/a_comparison_of_vocational_qua.htm

So, thanks to all for the interesting discussion.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  EdithK: Nicole, not a Fachhochschulabschluss, see my explanation, these are courses new in germany.
5 mins
  -> Is FachHOCHschule not the equivalent of a Polytechnic (= university offering courses with a strong vocational bias)? That's where you find HNDs.

agree  yeswhere: with explanation - usually a student has to have A levels (or OND Ordinary National Diploma which is minimum 2 years of college) to commence HND/C studies, so it is tantamount to a degree.
16 mins
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