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their genealogy is not bastard but their tongues are

Russian translation: well, if I understand correctly...

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04:18 Jan 4, 2003
English to Russian translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
English term or phrase: their genealogy is not bastard but their tongues are
помогите вникнуть в суть. :) текст набит битком метафорами, иногда я теряю нить, которой они связаны. контекст такой:

*
the catholic church has decreed that loveproducts of an annulled marriage are not bastard children. (they hold their breaths and hands for the day when they can make a family of their own, not in separate residences. their genealogy is not bastard but their tongues are.)
zmejka
Local time: 00:56
Russian translation:well, if I understand correctly...
Explanation:
1) Two Catholics got married and had children (love products)
2) The marriage was annulled (maybe one of them was too young or declared insane, which wouldn't surprise me in this context)
3) They have to live separately, but are eagerly awaiting the day (maybe when the girl reaches the age of 18) when they can live together like a family
4) The "bastard tongue" is incomprehensible, but it might mean that they shouldn't have criticized the church. It depends on what follows.
Good luck and try to not to have any nightmares from that crazy stuff!

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Note added at 2003-01-04 07:47:35 (GMT)
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I just did a Google search on \'\"bastard tongue\". It turns out that Salman Rushdie declared English to be a \"bastard tongue\":

This is perhaps one of the primary reasons that systems of epistemology and language acquisition must be historicized in the context of the Third World women\'s experience. Hence, education and the English language are popular reflective themes in fictions in English written by Third World women, partly since this knowledge of English has become a vehicle for narrating personal histories, be they through memoir, poetry, or fiction, to a world whose ears are already pricked up and familiar with the English language. And though some felt and may feel that subscribing to this \"bastard tongue,\" as termed by Salman Rushdie, was, in a sense, a kind of linguistic betrayal of the mother tongue, it was one of the only ways colonized people could rise economically, socially, and politically under colonialism.

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Note added at 2003-01-04 11:29:09 (GMT)
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Another idea:
The division of the Church was like an annulled marriage. The children of the Church (i.e. the various Catholic nations) are legitimate but they speak \"bastard tongues\" (jazyki), which are a degraded form of Latin mixed with native Germanic languages. One day the various countries will reunite in an empire.
Selected response from:

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 15:56
Grading comment
Guys, thank you very much for your help in guessing whatever the girl might have meant! I think what William found about English being declared to be a 'bastard tounge' by Salman Rushdie is the closest we'll all get to whatever she had in mind. %) William, thank you veryveryvery much, and a belated Happy New Year to all of you! :))
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1C происхождением у них все в порядке, а вот с язычками...
Yuri Smirnov
5католическая церковь признавла детей рожденных до бра
arterm
5хоть они и благородного происхождения, но язык их плебейскийyben
4 +1Если текст исторический...
Oleg Rudavin
4См. Новый завет (Luke 3:23-38)
Mark Vaintroub
4well, if I understand correctly...
William Stein
3хоть происхождение их законно/не незаконно, но говорят они на чужом/забытом языке/языках
Montefiore
2"В их жилах течет кровь законных предков, но чужие языки на их устах"
Sergey Strakhov


  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
См. Новый завет (Luke 3:23-38)


Explanation:
So we see that God protected the seed of Christ through these peculiar or treasured people. The fallen angels had every intension of polluting the seed line of these Israelites, and God protect them. This is why Moses gave strict orders not to mix with the heathen, nor give their sons or daughters over to them in marriage. The fallen angels took the daughters of these different peoples to marriage, and their offspring were of mixed blood polluted with the fallen angels. That is what a "bastard" or [mamzer in the Hebrew, #4464] is, it is the mixing of blood lines between an Israelite father and non-Israelite mother or vise versa. And to this day it is the greatest insult of slander that one person can say of another Israelite. An illegitimate child by a Israelite father and a Israelite mother is not a "bastard" [mamzer], for the bastard is a hybrid, a mongrel in human flesh.



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Note added at 2003-01-04 04:44:36 (GMT)
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Змейка, текст дан не из Библии, но для того, чтобы понять какая подразумевается генелогия, надо посмотреть Новый Завет.

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Note added at 2003-01-04 04:56:41 (GMT)
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Скорее всего подразумевается, что грехом / злом / чем-то низким явлется не генеалогия, то есть происхождение детей и родителей, а язык(и), на которых они потом говорят.

Mark Vaintroub
Canada
Local time: 17:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 1026
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
хоть происхождение их законно/не незаконно, но говорят они на чужом/забытом языке/языках


Explanation:
только догадка, конечно

Дети, родившиеся у родителей, которые потом развелись, могут в таком религиозном контексте считаться "чужими" по отношению к родителям, или отчуждёнными, и говорить на "чужом" языке/языках, т.е. на языке, лишённом благословения обоих родителей

Да, может так -

...но их язык/языки лишен/ы благословения

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Note added at 2003-01-04 04:49:29 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Вот ещё одна догадка:

Происхождение их законно, но язык/и осквернен/ы

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 14:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 386
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
well, if I understand correctly...


Explanation:
1) Two Catholics got married and had children (love products)
2) The marriage was annulled (maybe one of them was too young or declared insane, which wouldn't surprise me in this context)
3) They have to live separately, but are eagerly awaiting the day (maybe when the girl reaches the age of 18) when they can live together like a family
4) The "bastard tongue" is incomprehensible, but it might mean that they shouldn't have criticized the church. It depends on what follows.
Good luck and try to not to have any nightmares from that crazy stuff!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-04 07:47:35 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I just did a Google search on \'\"bastard tongue\". It turns out that Salman Rushdie declared English to be a \"bastard tongue\":

This is perhaps one of the primary reasons that systems of epistemology and language acquisition must be historicized in the context of the Third World women\'s experience. Hence, education and the English language are popular reflective themes in fictions in English written by Third World women, partly since this knowledge of English has become a vehicle for narrating personal histories, be they through memoir, poetry, or fiction, to a world whose ears are already pricked up and familiar with the English language. And though some felt and may feel that subscribing to this \"bastard tongue,\" as termed by Salman Rushdie, was, in a sense, a kind of linguistic betrayal of the mother tongue, it was one of the only ways colonized people could rise economically, socially, and politically under colonialism.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-04 11:29:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another idea:
The division of the Church was like an annulled marriage. The children of the Church (i.e. the various Catholic nations) are legitimate but they speak \"bastard tongues\" (jazyki), which are a degraded form of Latin mixed with native Germanic languages. One day the various countries will reunite in an empire.

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 15:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4
Grading comment
Guys, thank you very much for your help in guessing whatever the girl might have meant! I think what William found about English being declared to be a 'bastard tounge' by Salman Rushdie is the closest we'll all get to whatever she had in mind. %) William, thank you veryveryvery much, and a belated Happy New Year to all of you! :))
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
C происхождением у них все в порядке, а вот с язычками...


Explanation:
Господа, это ведь не трактат. Нельзя переводить пять слов пятью сотнями.


Yuri Smirnov
Local time: 00:56
Native speaker of: Native in BelarusianBelarusian, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 3861

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sergey Strakhov: По сути согласен с Вами, но стиль оригинала все же не очень "разговорный". Нужно бы еще "шлифануть" эту фразу
1 hr
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
"В их жилах течет кровь законных предков, но чужие языки на их устах"


Explanation:
Вот так я понял эту метафору. Подкрепить ссылками, увы, не в силах...

Удачи в Новом году, Zmejka!

Sergey Strakhov
Local time: 23:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 3316
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Если текст исторический...


Explanation:
Незаконнорожденные дети благородных папаш воспитывались матерями из простолюдинов, и речь их была соответствующей. Отсюда перевод:

У них благородное происхождение, чего не скажешь о речи.

Удачи в Новом!
Олег

Oleg Rudavin
Ukraine
Local time: 00:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in UkrainianUkrainian
PRO pts in pair: 1044

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikita Kobrin
1 day6 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
хоть они и благородного происхождения, но язык их плебейский


Explanation:
-

yben
Local time: 00:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 259
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8 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
католическая церковь признавла детей рожденных до бра


Explanation:
католическая церковь признавла детей рожденных до развода законнорожденными.
Эти дети жили в некоем подобии слылки смиренно ожидая возможности создать собственную семью и покинуть эти "резиденции" и потому были чужды своим родителям.

arterm
Russian Federation
Local time: 01:56
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in pair: 174
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