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push the envelope

Russian translation: работать на пределе сил, выкладываться

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:push the envelope
Russian translation:работать на пределе сил, выкладываться
Entered by: Natalie
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23:01 Dec 18, 2001
English to Russian translations [Non-PRO]
Tech/Engineering
English term or phrase: push the envelope
The partners push the envelope to set new performance standards.
Dante
работать на полном пределе сил, полностью выкладываться
Explanation:
PUSH THE ENVELOPE
From Claire Walsh (related questions came from Clive Pullinger, Linda Webb, Brian MacWhinney, Sue McCoy, and others): "I've always been puzzled by the phrase pushing the envelope; it's an incongruous image that doesn't seem to have any relationship to its meaning. Can you tell me where it comes from?"

It comes from mathematics, specifically as it is used in aeroplane design. It was popularised by Tom Wolfe's book of 1979, The Right Stuff, about test pilots and the early space programme. It's an excellent example of the way that a bit of specialised jargon known only to a few practitioners can move into the general language.
In mathematics, an envelope is the enclosing boundary of a set or family of curves that is touched by every curve in the system. This usage is known from the latter part of the nineteenth century. It's also used in electrical engineering for the curve that you get when you connect the successive peaks of a wave. This envelope curve encloses or envelops all the component curves.

In aeronautics, the envelope is the outer boundary of all the curves that describe the performance of the aircraft under various conditions of engine thrust, speed, altitude, atmospheric conditions, and the like. It is generally taken to be the known limits for the safe performance of the craft.

Test pilots have to test (or push) these limits to establish exactly what the plane is capable of doing, and where failure is likely to occur - to compare calculated performance limits with ones derived from experience. Test pilots called this pushing the edge of the envelope in the 1950s and 1960s, but this was soon shortened.

Following Tom Wolfe's book and film, the phrase began to move out into the wider world; the first recorded use in the more general sense of going (or attempting to go) beyond the limits of what is known to be possible came in the late 1980s.


Selected response from:

xxxH.A.
Grading comment
Thank you very much
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3addition ('add' function is always on and off)xxxH.A.
4 +2работать на полном пределе сил, полностью выкладыватьсяxxxH.A.
5дополнение
Vanda
3 +1Партнеры используют современные технологии, чтобы установить новые стандарты производительности
Data


  

Answers


41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
работать на полном пределе сил, полностью выкладываться


Explanation:
PUSH THE ENVELOPE
From Claire Walsh (related questions came from Clive Pullinger, Linda Webb, Brian MacWhinney, Sue McCoy, and others): "I've always been puzzled by the phrase pushing the envelope; it's an incongruous image that doesn't seem to have any relationship to its meaning. Can you tell me where it comes from?"

It comes from mathematics, specifically as it is used in aeroplane design. It was popularised by Tom Wolfe's book of 1979, The Right Stuff, about test pilots and the early space programme. It's an excellent example of the way that a bit of specialised jargon known only to a few practitioners can move into the general language.
In mathematics, an envelope is the enclosing boundary of a set or family of curves that is touched by every curve in the system. This usage is known from the latter part of the nineteenth century. It's also used in electrical engineering for the curve that you get when you connect the successive peaks of a wave. This envelope curve encloses or envelops all the component curves.

In aeronautics, the envelope is the outer boundary of all the curves that describe the performance of the aircraft under various conditions of engine thrust, speed, altitude, atmospheric conditions, and the like. It is generally taken to be the known limits for the safe performance of the craft.

Test pilots have to test (or push) these limits to establish exactly what the plane is capable of doing, and where failure is likely to occur - to compare calculated performance limits with ones derived from experience. Test pilots called this pushing the edge of the envelope in the 1950s and 1960s, but this was soon shortened.

Following Tom Wolfe's book and film, the phrase began to move out into the wider world; the first recorded use in the more general sense of going (or attempting to go) beyond the limits of what is known to be possible came in the late 1980s.





    Reference: http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-pus1
xxxH.A.
PRO pts in pair: 54
Grading comment
Thank you very much

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yuri Geifman: I use the phrase quite a bit, but I had no idea where came from... good one
1 hr
  -> Same here. These questions really make us think harder than normal :-)

disagree  xxxNelly: 1)The link doesn't work; 2) I've heard just the opposite (in common nowadays language) - e.g. to proove what isn't true
3 hrs
  -> the link works...

agree  Rusinterp
3 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Vanda
7 hrs
  -> спасибо

neutral  Milana_R: no, the link really doesn't work, but you can find that page here: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pus1.htm
11 hrs
  -> у меня он почему-то работает, - да и вообще причем тут 'работает/не работает'? Вы же не думаете, что быстренько сочинила эту ерунду и придумала линк :-)
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51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
addition ('add' function is always on and off)


Explanation:
или же, в зависимости от контекста, может быть, имеется ввиду предел возможностей не самих партнеров, а того, что они экслуатируют (система, методы, оборудование и т.д.)

xxxH.A.
PRO pts in pair: 54

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rusinterp
3 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  protolmach: Мне кажется, что это еще и рисковать, до какой то степени, размахивать красным перед быком. Так, во всяком случае, я слышала в разговорной речи.
3 hrs
  -> да, превышать рамки благоразумного

agree  Milana_R: exactly - the envelope of performance standards, not the performers
11 hrs
  -> In this contex, most probably.
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
дополнение


Explanation:
Хафиза совершенно права, учитывая контекст:
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19960910
Figurative use of the phrase, meaning 'to stretch the boundaries', dates from the late 1980s

Но интересно было столкнуться также с отрицательным оттенком этого словосочетания, как я бы перевела "доходить до крайности":

[...]: 'Ads...seem to be pushing the envelope of taste
every day.' 'Push the envelope' in this sense is a very recent
arrival on the scene, dating only from 1988 according to the
evidence in our files.
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxpushth.html



Vanda
New Zealand
Local time: 06:58
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in pair: 726
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Партнеры используют современные технологии, чтобы установить новые стандарты производительности


Explanation:
Полностью присоединяюсь ко всем высказанным соображениям по поводу значения фразы. Тем не менее, мне кажется, что в данном контексте партнеры не "стараются изо всех сил" а именно "толкают прогресс", т.е. применяют какие-то технические новшества, используют новые технологии и т.п. (ведь мы говорим о "стандартах производительности!) Таким образом, вся фраза будет выглядеть, как указано в заголовке. Конечно, это лишь вариант, поскольку приведенного отрывка недостаточно для понимания идеи за текстом.

Удачи.

Data
PRO pts in pair: 120

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rusinterp: good point
10 hrs
  -> Thanky
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