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English natives, please help

Spanish translation: Rewrite

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20:13 Jan 28, 2003
English to Spanish translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
English term or phrase: English natives, please help
When a modern reader finds that humanities aroused among philosophers condemnation, he is forced to summon up all his historical sympathy if he would not conclude that philosophers were incapable of rational criticism.

I dont understand the grammar in this sentence. Please help me, if you have any suggestions.
Thanks
Zubimendi
Spain
Local time: 17:52
Spanish translation:Rewrite
Explanation:
This may help:

When a modern reader finds that the humanities provoked condemnation among philosophers, he is forced to muster all his historical sympathy to avoid concluding that philosophers were incapable of rational criticism.

I agree that the original sentence was probably not written by a native English-speaker.

Alan
Selected response from:

Alan Lambson
Local time: 09:52
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +4ver frase
Jorge Payan
5 +2Rewrite
Alan Lambson
4 +2muy extraño
Rachael West
5When a modern reader finds that humanities ....
María del Carmen Cerda
5Cuando el lector
IlonaT
5si no quiere llegar a la conclusión de que
Bonita Mc Donald
5"would" in if-clauses (special use) indicates willingness
xxxdawn39
4 +1Cuando un lector moderno descubre que las humanidades recibieron condena entro los filosofos, ...
Refugio
4 +1si no fuera porque llega a la conclusión de que....
xxxElena Sgarbo
5ver la frase abajo
Mariana Solanet
4si no hubiese concluído que los filósofos
Alejandro Gutierrez-Pons


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
si no fuera porque llega a la conclusión de que....


Explanation:
No soy English native, pero habiendo vivido muchos años en USA igual encuentro la frase poco natural. La doble negación, especialmente, no ayuda.

Mi interpretación es ésta:

...él se ve forzado a convocar toda su empatía histórica, si no fuera porque llega a la conclusión de que los filósofos son en realidad incapaces de emitir crítica (o juicio) racional.

Suerte
Elena


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-28 20:27:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... sería más adecuado, quizás, usar el verbo en pasado: los filósofos ERAN...

xxxElena Sgarbo
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 3982

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: Don't find "en realidad" here, but otherwise seems correct. Alternative forumlation for "if he would not" here would be "lest", but that's archaic and pretnetious.
29 mins
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
ver frase


Explanation:
"...se vería forzado a echar mano de toda su comprensión histórica para no llegar a la conclusión de que los filósofos eran incapaces de una crítica basada en la razón."

Jorge Payan
Colombia
Local time: 11:52
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 778

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  nimrodtran
5 mins
  -> gracias

agree  savannah
1 hr

agree  analisa
6 hrs

agree  xxxdawn39
4 days
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
si no hubiese concluído que los filósofos


Explanation:
Cuando un lector moderno se encuentra con que las humanidades se han alzado de entre la condenación de los filósofos, éste se ve forzado a llamar a toda su simpatía histórica si no hubese concluído que los filósofos eran incapaces de una crítica racional.

Alejandro Gutierrez-Pons
United States
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 22
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
muy extraño


Explanation:
... yo sí soy inglesa nativa, pero estoy como mínimo igual de extrañada como vosotros.
Básicamente estoy de acuerdo con las respuestas ya sugeridas, pero encuentro la frase muy poco natural y escrita de una manera rarísima. Podría venir del inglés antiguo, pero aun así...¿Realmente fue escrita por un nativo????
Muchísima suerte, Zubimendi!

Rachael West
Spain
Local time: 17:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 51

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marcela Robaina Boyd: Quien lo escribió debería leer a Orwell, escribir en PLAIN ENGLISH y FIGHT THE FOG
29 mins

agree  xxxdawn39: dudo que este maremagnum lo haya escrito un inglés nativo :D
4 days
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58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Cuando un lector moderno descubre que las humanidades recibieron condena entro los filosofos, ...


Explanation:
es necesario que despierte toda su empatia historica para no concluir que los filosofos eran incapaces de critica razonada.

The structure of the sentence implies that it was either translated into English from another language, or written by a non-native speaker.

Refugio
Local time: 08:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2313

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cebice: Excellent translation
6 mins
  -> Thank you, Cebice!
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
"would" in if-clauses (special use) indicates willingness


Explanation:
Efectivamente,"would" en este caso especial indica "querer", "tener voluntad de", como tú muy bien has traducido :"...si no quiere llegar a la conclusión..."
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
From "A Practical English Grammar"
(Oxford University Press):-"Normally "will/would" are not used after "if" in conditional sentences.There are, however, certain exceptions:
.............
2)[IF + WILL/WOULD]can be used with all persons to indicate WILLINGNESS.
"If you would kindly wait a moment, I´ll ask the manager to speak to you"=
if you are willing to wait....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Esta es mi traducción:
"Cuando un lector de ahora descubre que las Humanidades florecieron en medio de la condena de los filósofos,
se ve obligado a invocar a toda su comprensión por la Historia, si no quiere llegar a la conclusión de que los filósofos no estaban capacitados para la crítica racional"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Un saludo y suerte, ¡qué menudo texto te han metido!


xxxdawn39
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1846
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
ver la frase abajo


Explanation:
Cuando el lector moderno descubre que los filósofos rechazaban/condenaban las Humanidades, se ve forzado a recordar el valor histórico que ellos alcanzaron para no concluir que los filósofos eran incapaces de crítica racional.

The English grammar isn't strange, it's incorrect!!!!!



Mariana Solanet
Argentina
Local time: 13:52
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 395
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Rewrite


Explanation:
This may help:

When a modern reader finds that the humanities provoked condemnation among philosophers, he is forced to muster all his historical sympathy to avoid concluding that philosophers were incapable of rational criticism.

I agree that the original sentence was probably not written by a native English-speaker.

Alan

Alan Lambson
Local time: 09:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 127

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ana-Maria Hulse: Bravo!... very well said.
4 hrs
  -> Thank you, Ana María

agree  xxxdawn39: that´s English!! :D
4 days
  -> Thanks, Dawn
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
When a modern reader finds that humanities ....


Explanation:
When a modern reader finds that humanities aroused (Something) (1)among philosophers'(2) condemnation, he (3)would be forced to summon up all his historical sympathy if he (4)were not to conclude that philosophers were incapable of rational criticism.
Either humanities rose among or aroused something among


María del Carmen Cerda
Local time: 10:52
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 457
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
si no quiere llegar a la conclusión de que


Explanation:
Yes, I think that is the exact translation, it DOES mean that. If you want to say it another way, you could also say "para evitar llegar a la conclusión de que". My understanding of the whole sentence is: Cuando un lector moderno encuentra que las humanidades provocaron la condenación entre los filósofos, se ve forzado a reunir toda su simpatía historica si no quiere llegar a la conclusión de que los filósofos eran incapaces de hacer una crítica racional.



Bonita Mc Donald
Local time: 09:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 221
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Cuando el lector


Explanation:
se encuentra con la actitud de condena que las humanidades provocaron entre los filósofos, se ve obligado a apelar a/hacer uso de/referirse a la explicación histórica/al momento histórico para evitar llegar a la conclusión de que los filósofos no eran capaces de lanzar/emitir/producir una crítica razonada


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Note added at 2003-01-29 09:35:15 (GMT)
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el lector moderno/actual

IlonaT
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:52
PRO pts in pair: 247
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