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Chance or the Dance

Spanish translation: ¿Casualidad o concierto?

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14:44 May 15, 2005
English to Spanish translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Psychology
English term or phrase: Chance or the Dance
By Thomas Howard, I need the title in Spanish
Cristina Zavala
Ecuador
Local time: 09:03
Spanish translation:¿Casualidad o concierto?
Explanation:
Creo que no está traducido al castellano.

Adam and Eve and the Fall

There is, like it or no, a Dance going on, and one may join or not . . . The implication . . . of the Adam and Eve story is that if they had bowed to the interdict placed on the forbidden fruit, life and not death would have been the guerdon. That is, paradoxically, if they had knuckled under to what looked emphatically like a denial of their freedom, . . . they would have discovered something unimaginable to them - something that, according to the story, was at that very point lost to them and us for the duration of human time.

{Chance or the Dance: A Critique of Modern Secularism, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1969, 106-107}
The Meaning of Existence

There were some ages in Western history that have occasionally been called Dark. They were dark, it is said, because in them learning declined, and progress paused, and men labored under the pall of belief. A cause-effect relationship is frequently felt to exist between the pause and the belief. Men believed in things like the Last Judgment and fiery torment . . . Then the light came . . . Men were freed from the fear of the Last Judgment; it was felt to be more bracing to face Nothing than to face the Tribunal . . . The myth sovereign in the old age was that everything means everything. The myth sovereign in the new is that nothing means anything.

{Chance or the Dance: A Critique of Modern Secularism, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1969, 11-12}
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ56.HTM

Chapter One: The Old Myth and the New

...
Imagination, which is this faculty by which we suppose correspondences among all things and hence see them as images of one another (it is the imagination--the image-making faculty), is understood in opposite ways by the old myth and the new: by the new it is seen as a flight into fancy; by the old it was seen precisely as a flight toward actuality.

The new myth, I say, sees imagination as a flight into fancy--useful, to be sure, in helping us grasp rare abstractions like deity or ultimacy, or to articulate our experiences of grief or love or beauty, but undoubtedly leading us astray to the extent that it makes us picture and personify things. After all, we know that mathematics and linguistic analysis and astrophysics are the disciplines under which we must describe our universe, and this whole mythopoeic [6] way of speaking belongs to the ages that really believed that things were all animated and charged with identity and being,
****all dancing in the great Dance.*****
It was that sort of thing that came up with the picture, for instance, of God the Father as a bearded valetudinarian sitting on a throne dressed in a golden cope and tri-regnum, whereas our age knows that this is foolish and that no such thing is the case. Insofar as we are prepared to speak of "God" at all, we may say something about the Ground of Being. [7]

The argument of this book would applaud and demur at both images. Of the old man on the throne, it would say that if the image suggests wisdom and authority and majesty and antiquity and paternity and personhood, good; if it suggests senility and pompousness, it has broken down. By exactly the same token, if the image of the Ground of Being suggests the absolutely fundamental, the source, the foundation, good; if it suggests abstraction and remoteness and nonpersonhood, then it has broken down. Any image gets botched....
****In any case, there is the situation: the old myth saw the world as image; the new sees it as a chance concatenation of physical events.***
This book is an attempt to describe how our experience might look if we looked at it once more under the terms of the old myth. Or, put another way, to observe some of the regions in which, probably unaware, we keep the old myth alive by acting as though it were at least useful in organizing our experience. In the way we handle experience, from ordinary conversation to social custom to poetry; painting, ceremony, sex, and ritual, we do obeisance to the old myth. Whether that obeisance is fanciful and superstitious or is an authentic index of the way things are is, of course, the big question. The modern world supposes that it is the former. This book supposes that it is the latter. God (or somebody) will have to let us know which is the case.


http://www.lrc.edu/rel/blosser/thomas_howard.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2005-05-15 15:07:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sin interrogación.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2005-05-15 15:10:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

¿Casual o causal?
Selected response from:

xxx------
Grading comment
Muchas gracias y saludos a todos
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3el azar o la danzaRefugio
4ocasiòn o la representaciòn
Patricia Baldwin
4Casualidad o causalidadxxx------
3¿Casualidad o concierto?xxx------
2El reto o la danza
Jo Mayr


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
chance or the dance
¿Casualidad o concierto?


Explanation:
Creo que no está traducido al castellano.

Adam and Eve and the Fall

There is, like it or no, a Dance going on, and one may join or not . . . The implication . . . of the Adam and Eve story is that if they had bowed to the interdict placed on the forbidden fruit, life and not death would have been the guerdon. That is, paradoxically, if they had knuckled under to what looked emphatically like a denial of their freedom, . . . they would have discovered something unimaginable to them - something that, according to the story, was at that very point lost to them and us for the duration of human time.

{Chance or the Dance: A Critique of Modern Secularism, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1969, 106-107}
The Meaning of Existence

There were some ages in Western history that have occasionally been called Dark. They were dark, it is said, because in them learning declined, and progress paused, and men labored under the pall of belief. A cause-effect relationship is frequently felt to exist between the pause and the belief. Men believed in things like the Last Judgment and fiery torment . . . Then the light came . . . Men were freed from the fear of the Last Judgment; it was felt to be more bracing to face Nothing than to face the Tribunal . . . The myth sovereign in the old age was that everything means everything. The myth sovereign in the new is that nothing means anything.

{Chance or the Dance: A Critique of Modern Secularism, San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1969, 11-12}
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ56.HTM

Chapter One: The Old Myth and the New

...
Imagination, which is this faculty by which we suppose correspondences among all things and hence see them as images of one another (it is the imagination--the image-making faculty), is understood in opposite ways by the old myth and the new: by the new it is seen as a flight into fancy; by the old it was seen precisely as a flight toward actuality.

The new myth, I say, sees imagination as a flight into fancy--useful, to be sure, in helping us grasp rare abstractions like deity or ultimacy, or to articulate our experiences of grief or love or beauty, but undoubtedly leading us astray to the extent that it makes us picture and personify things. After all, we know that mathematics and linguistic analysis and astrophysics are the disciplines under which we must describe our universe, and this whole mythopoeic [6] way of speaking belongs to the ages that really believed that things were all animated and charged with identity and being,
****all dancing in the great Dance.*****
It was that sort of thing that came up with the picture, for instance, of God the Father as a bearded valetudinarian sitting on a throne dressed in a golden cope and tri-regnum, whereas our age knows that this is foolish and that no such thing is the case. Insofar as we are prepared to speak of "God" at all, we may say something about the Ground of Being. [7]

The argument of this book would applaud and demur at both images. Of the old man on the throne, it would say that if the image suggests wisdom and authority and majesty and antiquity and paternity and personhood, good; if it suggests senility and pompousness, it has broken down. By exactly the same token, if the image of the Ground of Being suggests the absolutely fundamental, the source, the foundation, good; if it suggests abstraction and remoteness and nonpersonhood, then it has broken down. Any image gets botched....
****In any case, there is the situation: the old myth saw the world as image; the new sees it as a chance concatenation of physical events.***
This book is an attempt to describe how our experience might look if we looked at it once more under the terms of the old myth. Or, put another way, to observe some of the regions in which, probably unaware, we keep the old myth alive by acting as though it were at least useful in organizing our experience. In the way we handle experience, from ordinary conversation to social custom to poetry; painting, ceremony, sex, and ritual, we do obeisance to the old myth. Whether that obeisance is fanciful and superstitious or is an authentic index of the way things are is, of course, the big question. The modern world supposes that it is the former. This book supposes that it is the latter. God (or somebody) will have to let us know which is the case.


http://www.lrc.edu/rel/blosser/thomas_howard.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2005-05-15 15:07:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sin interrogación.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2005-05-15 15:10:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

¿Casual o causal?

xxx------
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Muchas gracias y saludos a todos
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
chance or the dance
Casualidad o causalidad


Explanation:
Saludos. Excepcionalmente hago dos propuestas.

xxx------
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
chance or the dance
ocasiòn o la representaciòn


Explanation:
te sirve?

Muchísima suerte!


Patricia Baldwin
United States
Local time: 07:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
chance or the dance
El reto o la danza


Explanation:
***

Jo Mayr
Germany
Local time: 16:03
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
chance or the dance
el azar o la danza


Explanation:
+

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 9 mins (2005-05-15 15:54:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BIODANZA, LA DANZA DE LA VIDA - [ Translate this page ]
... la expresión de la unidad orgánica del hombre con el universo. Esta noción de
la danza como cenestesia integrativa, es muy antigua y tiene, ...
www.espinoso.org/biblioteca/biodanza.htm - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 39 mins (2005-05-15 22:24:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

¿El azar o la danza?

Refugio
Local time: 07:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 40

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxx------: Muy bien, lograste conservar el sonido.
5 mins
  -> Gracias, Janfri; las palabras hasta comparten tres letras.

agree  Patricia Baldwin: Buenísima opción Ruth!!!..También quizá.."el azar o danzar/bailar" ? Cariños!!!
22 hrs
  -> Gracias, Patricia...keeps the rhyme but loses the parallelism

agree  carlie602: thanks
1 day10 hrs
  -> Thanks to you, Carlie
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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Changes made by editors
May 29, 2005 - Changes made by xxx------:
FieldOther » Art/Literary


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