groin de centrage

English translation: mast centering snout

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	groin de centrage
English translation:	mast centering snout
Entered by:	Duncan Moncrieff

10:10 Aug 9, 2014

French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Aerospace / Aviation / Space / dispositif d'accrochage pour turboréacteur

French term or phrase: groin de centrage

Hi,

No entries on google for "groin" in the technical sense
I would be very reluctant at using "snout" in this context...

"Structure d'accrochage, (...) caractérisée en ce que les moyens d'attache (201) au pylône comprennent au moins un groin de centrage (202).

However I HAVE found "face mask" on IATE, but I do not think it is what we are talking about here.

I have uploaded the figure:
http://s2.postimg.org/ag6uo5zxl/groin_de_centrage_202.jpg

Thank you!

Louisa Tchaicha KudoZ activity Questions: 1238 (8 open) (5 without valid answers) (56 closed without grading) Answers: 145 Tunisia
Local time: 10:04

mast centering snout

Explanation:
from the French and English version of a patent found on Google...

14.Structure d'accrochage (1 ) selon l'une quelconque des revendications 1 1 à 13, caractérisée en ce que les moyens d'attache (201 ) au pylône comprennent au moins un groin de centrage (202).
14. Gripping structure (1) according to any one of claims 1 1 to 13, characterized in that the attachment means (201) to comprise at least a mast centering snout (202).

Selected response from:

Duncan Moncrieff
France
Local time: 11:04

Grading comment

Thank you Duncan for all the great links and BD Finch and kashew for your help :)
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

mast centering snout

Duncan Moncrieff

locating groove

kashew

centring tongue

B D Finch

Discussion entries: 13

Duncan Moncrieff

France

@ Anton K

23:56 Aug 9, 2014

Anton, I can understand your reluctance to accept snout, however, it is an accepted term in engineering. Here's a few links to varying uses of it:

http://www.maceengineering.com.au/Snout-Machining-Tool-1
http://www.1speedway.com/TubesandSnouts.htm
http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/forged-spindles-gm-snou...
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=342044
http://www.ncrs.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-102680.html
http://www.apiused.com/ag-attach.htm
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Catalogs/RCD_Section A-Starte...
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?64841-Pulley-and-...
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm
http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/803_.pdf

I've kept the best two for last - a bilingual index (French -English) provided by Dassault Aviation and a call for proposals for a "Engine Mounts and in-flight Balancing System" by the cleansky initiative:
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/services/bilingual-index...
http://www.cleansky.eu/sites/default/files/documents/events/...

Duncan Moncrieff

France

@kashew

20:06 Aug 9, 2014

You're welcome!

kashew

France

@ DM

19:37 Aug 9, 2014

No problem, colleague. Those additional diagrams make things clearer.
Good detective work - well done.

Duncan Moncrieff

France

@kashew

18:41 Aug 9, 2014

I'm sorry, I'd not paid much attention to the Google patent text because I used it as a starting point to get to the patent office documents.
Once I'd confirmed the existence of the term and the exactness of the diagram in both the USPO and EPO versions I was satisfied.

I'd interpreted your use of "quaint" to refer to "snout" - my error, so please accept my apologies for this.

As to asking the Asker to use it verbatim - no, but as the refs link to the patent application, all the necessary information was within reach.

Duncan Moncrieff

France

18:28 Aug 9, 2014

If you go to the source, go right to the source which is the patent application try:
https://register.epo.org/application?documentId=EV3B8IAL0093... and look at page 8 lines 20-23 and page 14, figure 7
available from :https://register.epo.org/application?number=EP09720401
If you do the same thing with the USPO, and you can get to the USPO patent application through either google, the USPO or the EPO you get "centering snout". In the USPO document ( http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDo... )it is true that they use pylon instead of mast.
Apparently there can be one or more "groin de centrage"/"centering snouts" - the text is deliberately imprecise.

Louisa Tchaicha

Tunisia

ASKER

If I do use "snout", it certainly

15:41 Aug 9, 2014

won't be because of the google patents translations, they are as Anton said machine translations (or something very close).

kashew

France

Let's look at the Source closely:

13:47 Aug 9, 2014

.. au pylône comprennent au moins un groin de centrage (202).
What does the at least indicate? At least one, maybe more than one?

kashew

France

What's "quaint" to me, Duncan,

13:31 Aug 9, 2014

is the English translation as a whole. I wasn't clear enough on that.
If you have the time read through it yourself.
And then, would you suggest Asker uses it verbatim? If that's indeed her job on hand?

Duncan Moncrieff

France

Try snout + fuel + injector as well

12:33 Aug 9, 2014

A combustor is a component or area of a gas turbine, ramjet, or scramjet engine where combustion takes place.
The snout is an extension of the dome that acts as an air splitter, separating the primary air from the secondary air flows (intermediate, dilution, and cooling air; see Air flow paths section below).
Also there are tons of reference to drive snouts and I could go on and on for a long time.

Duncan Moncrieff

France

12:24 Aug 9, 2014

Try looking for "snout" together with "reactor" and I think you'll find that this is not the first time that the term "snout" is used in a technical context. It might be quaint, but apparently the people who work in certain engineering fields like picturesque terms. :)
If they want to call it a snout, or even a nose, who are we to complain, they're the ones who have to read and use the docs afterwards. We’re not linguistic fascists who try to dictate what must or must not be used against the usages practiced in a field, are we?
E.g.:
http://www.google.com/patents/US3567577
http://barc.ernet.in/publications/eb/golden/reactor/toc/chap...
http://www.dvidshub.net/image/833743/snout-assembly-furnace-...
http://www.omdec.com/articles/p_paperCandu.html

kashew

France

Why retranslate into English?

12:05 Aug 9, 2014

Because it's pretty quaint for technical English? It could do with substantial improvement. A sight of more of the diagrams would help us help Asker to describe the elements accurately.

Duncan Moncrieff

France

11:19 Aug 9, 2014

Snout is in fact the term that was used in the english version of the patent application.

Louisa Tchaicha

Tunisia

ASKER

parts on the figure

10:10 Aug 9, 2014

(5 is the pylône d'accrochage, 2 the turboréacteur, 1 structure d'accrochage, 3 carter de soufflante, 4 moyens d'attache moteur, 13 surface latérale aval du caisson, 1 unité d'accrochage, 201 moyens d'attache du caisson au pylône.)

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

mast centering snout

Duncan Moncrieff
France
Local time: 11:04
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 3

Grading comment

Thank you Duncan for all the great links and BD Finch and kashew for your help :)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

writeaway: good refs. does this mean that even the patent specialists are getting it wrong???

13 mins

-> Absolutely, they're only bureaucratic pen pushers sitting in offices after all, they don't do any real work do they. Hold on, you could say the same for translators as well if you're perverse!! (2nd degree comment, 3rd for the enlightened)

neutral

Anton Konashenok: It's not even a human translation. Taking it as an authoritative reference is a professional suicide. // Yes, the USPO one is decent, though personally I still wouldn't use "snout". Looking at the picture, I see "groin" as a pig nose metaphor.

2 hrs

-> If you use it a starting point through to the EPO and the USPO you'll find "centering snout" and "groin de centrage" used for 202. You just need to look through to the actual sources.

48 mins confidence:

locating groove

Explanation:
* circular?

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Note added at 53 minutes (2014-08-09 11:04:06 GMT)
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Or slot(s) perhaps?

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Note added at 56 minutes (2014-08-09 11:07:12 GMT)
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If its the male part: then I'd say locating pin(s), or locating ring if completely circular. Cannot see which from the sketch.

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Note added at 1 heure (2014-08-09 11:27:21 GMT)
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Centering rather than locating, yes.

kashew
France
Local time: 11:04
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 39

4 hrs confidence:

centring tongue

Explanation:
Not having seen a picture of it, but keeping within spitting distance of the snout image.

www.google.com/patents/US5596802
11a shows a front view of a centring tongue displaceable in vertical direction opposite to the action of a wire spring in direction of arrow C in FIG. 10. FIG.

www.google.com/patents/US4937711
"... a link rod, which comprises a locating channel at one end and a locating tongue at the other end, said locating channel including a reinforcing ... "

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Note added at 5 hrs (2014-08-09 15:15:06 GMT)
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Now that I have seen the picture, I think that "tongue" is OK, even if the "groin" is rectangular. Though it could be described as a "nib".

B D Finch
France
Local time: 11:04
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 50

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