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2nd plan (3eme, 4eme,5eme)

English translation: 2nd wing/bay

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:2nd plan (3eme, 4eme,5eme)
English translation:2nd wing/bay
Entered by: Stephen Rifkind

04:26 Jul 19, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / theatre/opera
French term or phrase: 2nd plan (3eme, 4eme,5eme)
Stage instuctions: actors enter premier plan (foreground).
They also enter 2eme plan, 3eme plan, 4eme plan, 5eme plan.
I originally thought that these plans are vertical - levels. However, I now have doubts.
P.S. I hope that this is the last opera / theatre questions of this document. Thank you all for your help.
Stephen Rifkind
Israel
Local time: 13:53
2nd wing
Explanation:
They are talking about what colisse/couloir the actor uses for their entrance.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-19 08:34:35 GMT)
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"Bay" is also apparently used in the UK, Dusty can confirm. Note that foreground is not the term you want elsewhere.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-07-19 10:31:35 GMT)
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Emmanuelle Stauble's "Bilingual Lexicon for Touring Technicians" (1999):

"Plan / Couloir ... Bay / Wing / Cross stage zone"
Selected response from:

David Vaughn
Local time: 12:53
Grading comment
Thank you all (including other answers) for the wonderful discussion. I am choosing "bay" because it is short, sounds "good" and is apparently used. By the way, it is always reassuring to know that a given question does not have an obvious answer, i.e. I am not stupid and/or lazy.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
52nd wing
David Vaughn
52nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, unit of blocked stage/up-stage, down-stage, stage right, stage left
Speakering (X)
4(Enter) from the wings center stage (left or right) (between first and second wing legs/tabs/flats)
sueaberwoman
3middle ground
Helen Shiner
2middle DS, etc.
Tony M


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
middle ground


Language variant: part-middle ground [in this case]

Explanation:
Ok, my Harraps confirms that usually 2me plan means either middle ground or background in theatre terms. I guess you're going to have to be a bit creative with this large stage. I would suggest foreground, part-middle ground, middle ground, part-background, background, or some such variant.

I give a link related to compostion of shots in film-making.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-19 08:32:31 GMT)
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or perhaps better semi-middle ground, etc.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-19 08:38:00 GMT)
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Upstage, downstage is also used.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-19 08:47:18 GMT)
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Here is an example of the stage being divided into 'different spaces', http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE4D7133FF...


    Reference: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DRjSU2N7Z3oC&pg=PA87&lpg=...
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 348

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Vaughn: This simply isn't theatre talk. It may vaguely describe in lay terms, but that isn't a good idea here, IMO.
29 mins
neutral  Tony M: As Vaughn says, this doesn't sound like proper theatre jargon to me
2 hrs
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
middle DS, etc.


Explanation:
It is clear exaclty what is meant by the term, but as Vaughn has made clear, the actual way it is expressed is somewhat different in EN, I feel. I've not personally encountered this type of term, but I'm sure it dates back historically to when the scenery used to be slidd on and off stage on 'tracks', thus defining quite fixed positions between the scenery where entrances and exits could be made.

I would attempt to convert to more meaningful EN expressions, once you have found out if your list of 5 'planes' is exhaustive. if so, it might go soemthing like this:

1er plan DS [= downstage]
2e plan middle DS
3e plan mid-stage
4e plan middle US [= upstage]
5e plan US

I emphasize that these are my own 'invented' terms, I cannot back them up with solid refs.

There might be some argument for using 'centre' instead of 'middle', but personally, I feel that is confusing, sinc eit could be taken as meaning the centre of the stage laterally.

In our theatre, when we wanted to refer to a precise position in the US/DS sense, we would often refer to the number of the (lighting) 'bar' immediately above it (or to the space between 2 bars) — so we might have "cut cloth #3 woodland on Bar 5" or "entrance between bars #7 and #10". But I don't know how general this terminology is.


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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-07-19 10:15:03 GMT)
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Given that the different points at which performers enter/exit will be clearly defined elsewhere, all you have to do is express which of the pre-defined points it is.

Tony M
France
Local time: 12:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Vaughn: I can't answer for UK usage, but this is not a stage position, it is merely the "entrance" from the side. Here there may indeed be 5 entrance points which may correspond to US, DS, etc. But what if there are 6 or 7 (not unusual in opera & dance)?
26 mins
  -> Thanks, V! Yes, exactly, that's why I said Asker will need to check the exhaustiveness of their list before deciding on exact terms to use. I think the key pioint is that the geography will have been predefined elsewhere
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
(Enter) from the wings center stage (left or right) (between first and second wing legs/tabs/flats)


Explanation:
A bit complicated, I know, but:

There are traditionally 6 different parts to the performing space:
upstage (farthest from audience), center stage and downstage; stage left and right (from actor's point of view).
The wings are equivalent to the offstage area (the part hidden from the audience), generally along the left and right sides. There is usually masking with curtains (called legs or tabs) and/or flats (generally canvas on a wooden frame used either as part of scenery or painted black).

I have not managed to turn up any strict equivalents for "plan" (indeed not very common in French theater either as far as I can see), certainly not dividing the stage into 5 horizontal bands. So my suggestion is to refer to the wing masking/ legs/tabs/flats in order to give a more precise place from which to enter.

http://tomhares.wordpress.com/glossary/
http://www.terryotooletheatre.org.uk/pages/TOTTechnicalInfor...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_of_a_theatre


sueaberwoman
Local time: 12:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 12
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
2nd wing


Explanation:
They are talking about what colisse/couloir the actor uses for their entrance.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-19 08:34:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Bay" is also apparently used in the UK, Dusty can confirm. Note that foreground is not the term you want elsewhere.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2008-07-19 10:31:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Emmanuelle Stauble's "Bilingual Lexicon for Touring Technicians" (1999):

"Plan / Couloir ... Bay / Wing / Cross stage zone"

David Vaughn
Local time: 12:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 289
Grading comment
Thank you all (including other answers) for the wonderful discussion. I am choosing "bay" because it is short, sounds "good" and is apparently used. By the way, it is always reassuring to know that a given question does not have an obvious answer, i.e. I am not stupid and/or lazy.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Sorry, can't actually confirm! Both terms seem plausible, but I've not actually encountered either personally.
1 hr
neutral  Helen Shiner: As Tony says, these are not terms that I have ever heard used in English, however correct in terms of practice.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Helen. I can't speak for UK, but in my 30 years of theatre & dance in the US, this is ordinary usage.
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, unit of blocked stage/up-stage, down-stage, stage right, stage left


Explanation:
the large stage is separated into blocks, and then the actors are told in which block are they to perform. if a smaller stage, then up-stage and the others work for blocking as well.


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_%28stage%29
Speakering (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in MacedonianMacedonian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 2

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Doesn't really address they key issue at stake here, and the concept of 'blocking' is rather irrelevant here.
14 hrs
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