See comments below...
I'm rather inclined to agree with Sarah and Natasha — it would appear on the face of it to be referring to 2 different services (or possibly more likely 'departments')
HOWEVER, that would account for the plural 'les services', but doesn't really explain why both 'qualités and 'methodes' should be plural too? I would have found it easier to understand if it had been one service / department that was called 'Quality & Methods' (yes, they do exist!) — but in that case, the plural 'les services' and also on 'qualités' would be wrong.
I still think Sarah's idea is right, but it does look to me as if there is at least one plural 's' too many — I find it hard to believe that they really have a dept. called 'Qualities'! Unless of course they have lots of depts. for both quality and methods!!
| Tony M|
Local time: 07:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 460
2 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
Who knows, maybe each department/division in the production chain has its own quality service and its own methods service:
Design quality service and design methods service
Production planning quality service and production planning methods service
Robotic automation quality service and robotic automation methods service
Staff teabreak quality service and staff teabreak methods service, etc.
But gut instinct tells me there should be no 2 on "qualité".
Local time: 07:41
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 673
3 hrs confidence:
even further comments
I wasn't going to weigh in here, but there is not enough space allowed for comments for me to present my argument in full.
You need to distinguish between two functions served by a noun placed immediately after another noun. I am not too sure about the terminology here, but I will call them nouns "in apposition" and "attributive" nouns.
An example of a noun in apposition would be "femme flic". She is a woman, but also a cop. So, if you have the misfortune to encounter two of them, they would be "deux femmes flics". (This is different from English, where they would be "two woman cops".)
However, in the term "service qualité" the noun "qualité" is attributive. It tells you what sort of service or department it is: a "service qualité" is not both a department and a quality, but a department that deals with quality. Nouns used attributively do not vary in number. You have one "service qualité" or two "services qualité"; similarly you have one "service méthodes" or two "services méthodes". Whether the attributive noun goes in the singular or plural is largely an idiomatic matter, but it remains the same whether the main noun is singular or plural.
I conclude, then, that the "s" on "qualités" is a mistake, albeit a natural one (due to the attraction of the nearby nouns in the plural). There is nothing here to distinguish between "quality departments and methods departments", "quality department and methods department", "quality departments and method department", "quality deparment and methods departments". However, the English translation "quality and methods departments" is perfectly acceptable and carries the same ambiguity.
(BTW I have seen the argument that you should never "translate the ambiguity", but should always try to resolve the ambiguity and provide an unambiguous translation. This argument is arrogant and dangerous codswallop. In this case, it is more than likely that the target audience will be familiar with the company structure, and it is not for a translator, in the absence of any privileged information, to presume to know better.)
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Agree with grammar (error) explanation about plural in qualités. However, I would think these are not two different depts.
There are only a few ppl making this mistake on Ghits, but they are all referring to one ensemble:
www.Process.OnLine.fr - Le site dédié aux techniques et méthodes ...
- [ Translate this page ]
Online les outils qualités et méthodes : 5S, TPM, AMDEC, et bien d'autres, ... Pour cela, elle vous fait bénéficier de différents services dans une ambiance ...
www.process.online.fr/ - 36k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
... vente de prestations de services à forte valeur ajoutée auprès de grands .... suivant et perfectionnant les normes qualités et méthodes de la société. ...
www.anciens.epita.fr/.../ce8aa497161f8842802565160050368b/b... - 22k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
CV de Technicienne qualité , cherche un emploi de qualités et ...
CV de Technicienne qualité cherche un emploi de qualités et méthodes, ... Les offres de missions - Présentez-vous GRATUIT - Services réservés aux ...
www.methodes.enligne-fr.com/mini_cv.php?code=nF29tAAxqsAJQB - 53k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Tous les six mois un bilan groupé des notes qualités et délai pour chaque sous-traitant est réalisé pour les services qualités et méthodes. ...
www.afpa2607.com/blogaieb/2005-2006/index.php?blog=10&page=... - 67k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Scientifique et professionnelle, et les groupes des services extérieurs (FS) et stagiaire .... Zone de concours; Énoncé de qualités et méthodes de révision ...
www.psagency-agencefp.gc.ca/ee/publications/ee/deesr-edese1... - 77k -
I think ppl above just added the S to qualités because it goes with the flow of serviceS, normeS, etc. and correct grammar was lost.
Note added at 9 hrs (2007-07-31 14:33:24 GMT)
A service and a department are completely different things, they are not synonyms, so I don't think you can jumble and use them interchangeably.
I have not heard of a "Methods Dept" - meaning, not research methods dept, stat methods dept, "etc methods" dept , just "methods dept"? Never heard of it.
Do you know of a company that has a "Methods Dept."?
I'm certainly not saying that just because I haven't heard of it, it doesn't exist, but it's quite senseless. Quality can stand on its own, but "methods" begs the question of methods of what kind, what for?
Regarding services, it's different. The methods and the quality services could be part of the same ensemble or not. And the entry did say services and not departments. My comment was in reference to Tony's suggestion of the possibility for "departments," and not anything related to the original query.
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-07-31 16:00:44 GMT)
BusterK - how many Ghits? one, two? That's not a very good indication, quite on the contrary...
Local time: 02:41
Native speaker of: English
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