cession de fonds de commernce

English translation: sale of operating assets

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:cession de fonds de commerce
English translation:sale of operating assets

12:05 Apr 14, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Business/Commerce (general)
French term or phrase: cession de fonds de commernce
Contexte :
L'activité de la société X a été rachetée par la société Y. La société X continue à exister, mais n'est qu'un "coquille vide", tandis que son activité continue au sein de la société Y.
Merci !
Maplecat
sale of operating assets
Explanation:
this gives more the sense of the company selling ALL of its business assets. Sale of business suggests that there may be some other assets left in it that haven't been sold.

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Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2005-04-14 13:41:04 GMT)
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...preferable in this context, since it says explicitly that X is reduced to a shell company.

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Note added at 23 hrs 46 mins (2005-04-15 11:51:57 GMT)
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Given the confusion reigning here, probably better to translate as:

-Sale of all operating/business assets. As I think it\'s important to highlight the fact that it becomes a shell company after the sale.





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Note added at 23 hrs 53 mins (2005-04-15 11:58:53 GMT)
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crh: Why is \'operating assets\' tangibles only? It\'s everything required to run a business, particularly in the case of a property management company that presumably has no substantial intellectual property such as patents, brands, etc.
Selected response from:

Jonathan Morris
Local time: 01:52
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3sale of operating assets
Jonathan Morris
5sale of business or sale of [Type of Business] business
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
5 -1goodwill assignment
Jorge Rodrigues
4 -1sale of a business concern
Christopher RH
4 -1goodwill transfer
abiggers


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
goodwill assignment


Explanation:
Or: assignment of goodwill.

Jorge Rodrigues
Brazil
Local time: 00:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  gad: or 'transfer of goodwill'
11 mins
  -> Thank you, gad.

agree  Marian Greenfield: agree w/Gina... prefer transfer of goodwill...
17 mins
  -> Thank you, Marian.

disagree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): It means they sold a business, part of the company, In American English, that is: Microsoft sold its [x] business to, not assignment and not transfer in this case...sorry
1 hr

disagree  Jonathan Morris: agree with Jane - how can X merely transfer goodwill and be reduced to a shell company,has to transfer actual assets whcih presumably have some carrying value.
1 hr

disagree  Christopher RH: agreedfor some circumstances - but I think it is a mistake to limit the expression to "goodwill" here
19 hrs
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
goodwill transfer


Explanation:
Transfer of the goodwill to another entity

abiggers
Local time: 23:52
Native speaker of: French

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Christopher RH: same comment as for "goodwill assignment" - I think it limits the meaning too much
19 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
sale of business or sale of [Type of Business] business


Explanation:
For example, IBM sold its Retail Computer Services business to Microsoft.

It's sale of the business, not transfer, not assignement..

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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2005-04-14 13:28:48 GMT)
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Company Y bought Company X\'s [photography] business.

That is an example..It is not goodwill here.

I\'ve been doing this a long time and I can assure you of that..



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Note added at 2 hrs 23 mins (2005-04-14 14:29:07 GMT)
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Please note, Socrates is right..but, sometimes, this can be referring to a Client List.....for things like partnerships

It depends on what kind of company it is....what is the buisness acticity of the company and what kind is it??



Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 441
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
sale of operating assets


Explanation:
this gives more the sense of the company selling ALL of its business assets. Sale of business suggests that there may be some other assets left in it that haven't been sold.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 35 mins (2005-04-14 13:41:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...preferable in this context, since it says explicitly that X is reduced to a shell company.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs 46 mins (2005-04-15 11:51:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Given the confusion reigning here, probably better to translate as:

-Sale of all operating/business assets. As I think it\'s important to highlight the fact that it becomes a shell company after the sale.





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs 53 mins (2005-04-15 11:58:53 GMT)
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crh: Why is \'operating assets\' tangibles only? It\'s everything required to run a business, particularly in the case of a property management company that presumably has no substantial intellectual property such as patents, brands, etc.

Jonathan Morris
Local time: 01:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): yeah..I realized that it's not one business in a slew..it's the working assets
56 mins
  -> thanks!

agree  Patrice
3 hrs
  -> thanks

agree  Christopher RH: um - I stand wholly corrected. My original comment (..."operating assets" strikes me as being tangibles only...) was completely wrong. ...Ahem...
18 hrs
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
sale of a business concern


Explanation:
"fonds de commerce" gives rise to much confusion. Including for myself! (my "neutral" comments in the other suggested answers are not particularly clear...)


First of all - in some contexts, "fonds de commerce" means, legally, ONLY the intangible assets such as goodwill, entitlement to renewal of the lease, internet domain name registration, etc.
However, it is not restricted to goodwill alone. All of the dictionaries that give "goodwill" as a straight equivalent are therefore - quite simply - wrong. It is "almost" goodwill...

This "almost goodwill" definition is particularly valid in accounting and tax matters, as under French tax law "fonds de commerce" cannot be depreciated/amortized. It also fits when dealing with the accounts, and the balance sheet item "fonds de commerce" can effectively be translated as "goodwill" without this being too far off the mark.


However, in a more general legal context "fonds de commerce" is a notional entity bringing together all of the tangibles (machinery & equipment + inventories, but NOT property & constructions) and intangibles (as above) which are "applied to seeking a clientele".
In other words it is essentially a business taken as a "going concern".

In addition, this collection of intangibles and tangibles is - in law - "une entité juridique disticte des éléments qui le composent" (as admirably described in Dalloz, Lexique de termes juridiques)


Since it is this meaning which appears to apply here, I recommend "sale of a business concern". If the document is really technical, a translator's note may be a good idea.

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Note added at 1 day 50 mins (2005-04-15 12:56:37 GMT)
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Two corrections:
My originally \"neutral\" comments were later changed to \"disagree\" because I think the standard dictionary \"goodwill\" response is too glaring an error in most cases.
However my \"disagree\" to socrates\' answer was also based on a glaring error on my part which has now been corrected.

Also, I mistyped the French quote from Dalloz - it should naturally be \"distincte\" with an \"n\"...

Christopher RH
Local time: 05:52
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Jonathan Morris: suggests that the company has other assets which it doesn't sell - not the case here - also don't agree that 'operating assets' necessarily excludes their associated goodwill
3 hrs
  -> No more so than "operating assets" suggests that there are "nonoperating" assets which are not sold (which is the case here)... but your second comment concerning your own answer is indeed correct.
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