Quarté désordre

English translation: combination / reverse quadcast

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:quarté désordre
English translation:combination / reverse quadcast
Entered by: Charles Davis

12:50 Oct 18, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Games / Video Games / Gaming / Casino / Bets on horses
French term or phrase: Quarté désordre
From a contract for pooling bets on horses:

"La gamme de paris ouverts en masse commune sur XXX couvre à minima les paris suivants :
en jeu simple :
a) Simple gagnant
b) Simple placé
en jeux de combinaison :
c) Quatrième
d) Jumelé Ordre
e) Jumelé Gagnant
f) Jumelé Placé
g) Trio Ordre
h) Trio
i) **Quarté désordre**
j) Quinté désordre

There appear to be equivalent English terms for most of the above, but I can't find any for the last two.
Mark Bossanyi
Bulgaria
Local time: 06:23
combination / reverse quadcast
Explanation:
By all means use the French term if you prefer, but if you'd like an English term, this is it. There are very few references to it, because it's a bet that doesn't really exist any more in the UK, but any UK bookmaker or serious punter will understand what a "reverse quadcast" is.

Certainly for the tiercé there's no need to use the French term. A tricast, which is a bet predicting the first three in order, is still offered by bookmakers, and the combination tricast or reverse tricast is the first three in any order:

"A Straight Tricast is a bet that contains 3 selections from the same race, one to finish 1st, one to finish 2nd and one to finish 3rd. A Combination Tricast is a bet that contains 3 selections from the same race, where either one can finish first, 1st, 2nd and 3rd."
http://coral-eng.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2407/~...

This is about dogs, not horses, but the same applies:

"Reverse Forecast and Reverse Tricast bets allow you to pick the dogs in the same way as Forecast and Tricast betting but the difference is that the dogs do not have to finish in the same order as you have to predict on the Forecast and Tricast bets. This is because the reverse covers all possible permutations and as such the stake will be higher."
http://www.onlinesportsbettingsites.co.uk/greyhounds/

So the same terms can in principle be applied to four selections rather than three:

"As far as the National goes, hopefully some of you took our advice after the weights were published and got on Teaforthree at 25/1. He's got a great chance but will need loads of luck as usual. Our quadcast would be 1 Teaforthree, 2 Big Shu, 3 Rocky Creek, 4 Walkon."
http://kimmypopsracing.proboards.com/thread/1438/horse-racin...

"I know f**k all about horse racing, so what the f**k is a quadcast?
I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it's somerthing to do with betting on 4 horses.
Do all 4 have to come in the top 4?"
"Yeah. In order. Or do a reverse quadcast and they can come in any order. Normally just forecasts and tricasts. Never known anyone to even attempt this bet, never mind win :lol:"
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=53229.10...

They are apparently a thing of the past:

"What about a single straight tricast bet only predicting the first 4 rather than first 3?
Certainly in 1981 those types of bets existed, and I'm sure bookmakers have taken bets on the first four home yesterday, after all they take bets on things like the number of fallers after the first fence on the National."
"They don't exist anymore mate. No 'quadcast' bet, if you like! There used to be a 'Trio' on the Tote, which was the first three in any order, so perming four selections would end up being four bets, but they disappeared along with Dual Forecasts about 10 years ago."
https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-326149....

Still, as I say, I think any serious betting person would understand what a combination or reverse quadcast is. As we can see, the answerer in the last reference, who says they no longer exist, knew what they would be called if they did.

In the US they have a trifecta for the first three in order and a superfecta for the first four in order. The first three in any order is called a boxed trifecta, I believe. Whether there's a "boxed superfecta" I don't know, but presumably that's what it's called if it exists.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 05:23
Grading comment
Thank you.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +3quarté without the right placings
Sp and Fr to En
4 +1combination / reverse quadcast
Charles Davis
4Four place each-way (UK) Boxed superfecta (US)
B D Finch
Summary of reference entries provided
explanation
writeaway
Wikipedia
philgoddard

  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
quarté without the right placings


Explanation:
From Collins Robert:
see PMU, quarté, quinté, tiercé
The PMU (“pari mutuel urbain”) is a government-regulated network of horse-racing betting counters run from bars displaying the PMU sign. Punters buy fixed-price tickets predicting winners or finishing positions. The traditional bet is a triple forecast (“tiercé”), although other multiple forecasts (“quarté”, “quarté +”, “quinté” etc) are also popular.
réussir le tiercé dans l'ordre/dans le désordre ou dans un ordre différent : to win on the tiercé with the right placings/without the right placings.

Sp and Fr to En
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:23
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: yes (misread it at first). In any case French explanations are easy to find. Didn't occur to me it would even be found in the dictionary
0 min

agree  Tony M
6 mins

neutral  philgoddard: I can't help feeling that if it has a French word in it, it's not a translation :-)
1 hr
  -> Haha, know the feeling, sometimes the mot juste is French.

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: I'd leave it as quarté bet in French with explanation. http://horseraces.pmu.fr/betting-guide & https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quarté
2 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Four place each-way (UK) Boxed superfecta (US)


Explanation:
https://goo.gl/HtVCZf
"An Each Way (E/W) bet is basically two bets - one bet is for the horse to win, the other is for the horse to place.

Because it is two bets, you have to double your stake. You will receive a return on your bet if your selection wins but also if it places. The place part of the bet will always be a fraction of the odds you have taken, usually 1/4 or 1/5
...

Place terms
Basically this means how many places we pay out on and this can differ from race to race. At the bottom of each race on site you will see what the place terms are."

grand-national.betting-directory.com/red-rum-handicap-chase.php
... many of the two mile handicap specialist, won in 2017 by Double W's. It was the first handicap race to be run at the Grand National meeting with the likelihood of a big field and four place each-way terms. ... Horse/SP, Age, Jockey, Trainer.

It seems that there is different US jargon for this and that there it would be a "boxed superfecta". https://www.thoughtco.com/betting-types-and-terms-1880416

https://extra.betamerica.com/betting-info/how-to-bet/superfe...
What is a boxed Superfecta bet? You still need to select the first four horses in the correct order, but by boxing your selections, they can finish in any combination ...

B D Finch
France
Local time: 05:23
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: it's the first 4 horses across the finish line, in any order of arrival
15 mins
  -> Yes, I'd understood that, but hadn't realised that (as Charles has pointed out), a four place each-way is still a bet on a single horse. I did get the US term right though.

neutral  Charles Davis: I think an each-way bet is on a single horse to win or place, and "four place" means place in the first four rather than three. The quarté is predicting the first four horses home. I think boxed superfecta is right for the US. // Absolutely!
17 mins
  -> You're right. So I get half an agree?
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
combination / reverse quadcast


Explanation:
By all means use the French term if you prefer, but if you'd like an English term, this is it. There are very few references to it, because it's a bet that doesn't really exist any more in the UK, but any UK bookmaker or serious punter will understand what a "reverse quadcast" is.

Certainly for the tiercé there's no need to use the French term. A tricast, which is a bet predicting the first three in order, is still offered by bookmakers, and the combination tricast or reverse tricast is the first three in any order:

"A Straight Tricast is a bet that contains 3 selections from the same race, one to finish 1st, one to finish 2nd and one to finish 3rd. A Combination Tricast is a bet that contains 3 selections from the same race, where either one can finish first, 1st, 2nd and 3rd."
http://coral-eng.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2407/~...

This is about dogs, not horses, but the same applies:

"Reverse Forecast and Reverse Tricast bets allow you to pick the dogs in the same way as Forecast and Tricast betting but the difference is that the dogs do not have to finish in the same order as you have to predict on the Forecast and Tricast bets. This is because the reverse covers all possible permutations and as such the stake will be higher."
http://www.onlinesportsbettingsites.co.uk/greyhounds/

So the same terms can in principle be applied to four selections rather than three:

"As far as the National goes, hopefully some of you took our advice after the weights were published and got on Teaforthree at 25/1. He's got a great chance but will need loads of luck as usual. Our quadcast would be 1 Teaforthree, 2 Big Shu, 3 Rocky Creek, 4 Walkon."
http://kimmypopsracing.proboards.com/thread/1438/horse-racin...

"I know f**k all about horse racing, so what the f**k is a quadcast?
I'm gonna go ahead and suggest it's somerthing to do with betting on 4 horses.
Do all 4 have to come in the top 4?"
"Yeah. In order. Or do a reverse quadcast and they can come in any order. Normally just forecasts and tricasts. Never known anyone to even attempt this bet, never mind win :lol:"
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=53229.10...

They are apparently a thing of the past:

"What about a single straight tricast bet only predicting the first 4 rather than first 3?
Certainly in 1981 those types of bets existed, and I'm sure bookmakers have taken bets on the first four home yesterday, after all they take bets on things like the number of fallers after the first fence on the National."
"They don't exist anymore mate. No 'quadcast' bet, if you like! There used to be a 'Trio' on the Tote, which was the first three in any order, so perming four selections would end up being four bets, but they disappeared along with Dual Forecasts about 10 years ago."
https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-326149....

Still, as I say, I think any serious betting person would understand what a combination or reverse quadcast is. As we can see, the answerer in the last reference, who says they no longer exist, knew what they would be called if they did.

In the US they have a trifecta for the first three in order and a superfecta for the first four in order. The first three in any order is called a boxed trifecta, I believe. Whether there's a "boxed superfecta" I don't know, but presumably that's what it's called if it exists.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 05:23
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch
16 mins
  -> Thanks!
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Reference comments


10 mins peer agreement (net): +3
Reference: explanation

Reference information:
Le Principe du Quarté +. Trouver les 4 premiers chevaux à l'arrivée dans l'ordre ou le désordre. Mise de base 1.3 € Fréquence Le Quarté + est proposé une fois ..
http://www.turfoo.fr/guide-paris-pmu/quarte-plus/

Mais si elles agissent conformément à vos pronostics, alors vous remporterez effectivement le Tiercé. Les règles sont strictement les mêmes pour un Quarté ou un Quinté. Vos gains seront alors calculés en fonction des cotes, et notamment selon la différence arrivée dans l'ordre / dans le désordre
https://www.kelbet.com/champ-total-et-champ-reduit-au-pmu-ti...

writeaway
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Tony M
6 mins
agree  philgoddard
1 hr
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quarté & http://horseraces.pmu.fr/betting-guide
2 hrs
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1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Wikipedia

Reference information:
I can't decide between the answers, but this may help, from Wikipedia:

Quarté+: The bettor aims to correctly pick the first four finishers in the race with a main dividend paid for selecting the first four runners in their exact order of finish, a secondary "Désordre" dividend paid for the selecting the first four finishers but in an incorrect finishing order and a tertiary "Bonus" dividend paid for correctly selecting only the first three runners (in any order).

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  writeaway: perhaps perhaps a tad too simple/down-market for some. This is what it is.
22 mins
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