cathares

English translation: Cathars is what he actually said

12:59 Apr 28, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
French term or phrase: cathares
"Laurent Fabius et ses amis sont les nouveaux cathares de l'Europe" in a newspaper article about the referendum for the European Constitution
Solomon Wright
Germany
Local time: 13:37
English translation:Cathars is what he actually said
Explanation:
Generally, I'd go with Bourth's "heretics" suggestion.
However, what the good Mr MacShane actually said is reported here:

http://www.why-war.com/news/2004/12/01/eurofigh.html

So, since what he actually said is available verbatim on-line, I suggest you use it :-)
Selected response from:

Charlie Bavington (X)
Local time: 12:37
Grading comment
Nice one, cheers. Thanks everyone for all the help, I now know rather more than I did before asking this question.

It's interesting how difficult it can be sometimes to work out if a quote in the press or the web is a translation or not - journalists seem to frequently not bother to tell you...
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3non-conservative, heretics
Bourth (X)
5the new social purists
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
5'Laurent Fabius and his friends are Europe's new Cathars'
Sue Dyson
5sono i nuovi catari dell'Europa
Rita Bandinelli
4 +1Do not translate
irat56
5Cathars is what he actually said
Charlie Bavington (X)
4Cathar
canaria


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Cathar


Explanation:
see http://www.answers.com/topic/cathar

canaria
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:37
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 6
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
sono i nuovi catari dell'Europa


Explanation:
i Catari erano eretici

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2005-04-28 13:05:40 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

scusa, ho visto adesso che era verso l\'inglese - cathars, of course

Rita Bandinelli
Local time: 13:37
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Do not translate


Explanation:
They are a religious group that was extinguished by Crusaders in the South of France. The idea of Catarism still exists but as far as I know, you have not to translate thet.

irat56
France
Local time: 13:37
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bourth (X): Except that "catharism" here is figurative, not literal, if only because Fabius is not even Christian!
8 mins
  -> Right of course, Fabius is, from a Middle East origin ;-)

neutral  franglish: how about nonconformist
1 hr
  -> I don't think so Catharism is very particular.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
non-conservative, heretics


Explanation:
How you translate "cathars" will depend, I imagine, on who your readership is, i.e. how culturo-historically aware they are likely to be.

The Cathars were a non-conservative branch of Christianity established in the south of France, accused of heresy, buggery, and anything else considered non-politico-ethico-religiously correct at the time and wiped out by Simon de Montfort and his cronies in the Albigensian Crusade.

For English readers, putting the image into English history, you could possibly use "Dissenters" , "Puritans" or "Quakers", but none of these were regarded to be quite as diabolical at the time as were the Cathars.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2005-04-28 13:27:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

NB The Cathars were around up until the 13th century, i.e. several centuries before the Dissenters, etc.

Bourth (X)
Local time: 13:37
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 73

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Glen McCulley: clued up Bourth ;-) although the new European heretics isn't bad
45 mins

agree  irat56: "Heretics" I agree, then
2 hrs

agree  franglish: heretics, then
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
'Laurent Fabius and his friends are Europe's new Cathars'


Explanation:
Cathars = medieval Albigensian heretics from Languedoc.

Sue Dyson
Local time: 12:37
Native speaker of: English
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
the new social purists


Explanation:
From Libé:
Cathares. «Laurent Fabius et ses amis sont les nouveaux cathares de l'Europe. Ils rêvent d'une Europe pure alors qu'il s'agit de faire fonctionner l'Europe réelle. Au bout du compte, ils n'arriveront qu'à la rendre immobile», affirmait récemment Dennis Mac Shane, ministre pour l'Europe du gouvernement britannique. [Yes but to whom and where...I wonder if this was a translation from the English? I looked at other quotes in French from Mr. MacShane and his language is good but not altogether that good]


Apparently the good minister does speak French....I wonder though it this was not translated from the English....the main things about the Cathars..is that the believed in the "absolute purety of social mores"...Larousse: pureté absolue des moeurs"

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 77
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Cathars is what he actually said


Explanation:
Generally, I'd go with Bourth's "heretics" suggestion.
However, what the good Mr MacShane actually said is reported here:

http://www.why-war.com/news/2004/12/01/eurofigh.html

So, since what he actually said is available verbatim on-line, I suggest you use it :-)

Charlie Bavington (X)
Local time: 12:37
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Nice one, cheers. Thanks everyone for all the help, I now know rather more than I did before asking this question.

It's interesting how difficult it can be sometimes to work out if a quote in the press or the web is a translation or not - journalists seem to frequently not bother to tell you...
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search