titre de sejour et carte de sejour

English translation: visa / residence permit

08:48 Apr 28, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Human Resources
French term or phrase: titre de sejour et carte de sejour
I have these two terms appearing in the same document as being separate proofs of residence. I thought that they were one of the same. How could I translate each of them?
Laura Robertson
France
Local time: 16:54
English translation:visa / residence permit
Explanation:
In France, anyway, a "titre de séjour" is a residency document, which may be rendered in English as "visa". A "carte de séjour" (of which I have one, which lasts 10 years for EU nationals) is a long-term residency document.

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Note added at 50 mins (2005-04-28 09:39:12 GMT)
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http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/rubriques/a/a4_publications/sej...

The whole doc should be useful, but see in particular page 2:

La durée de séjour en France

\"L\'ordonnance du 2 novembre 1945 modifiée permet de délivrer des ***titres de séjour valables***, soit 1 an au plus (***carte de séjour*** temporaire), soit de dix ans et renouvelables de plein droit (*la carte de résident*), soit encore à validité permanente (*carte de ressortissant communautaire*).

It seems from this that \"titre de séjour\" is a cover-all term meaning \"residency document\", and that \"carte de séjour\"s are issued to nationals of specific countries.

If I were you, I would normally go with the old \"original in italics + short gloss\" formula, but in a HR context you will probably need to use \"residency document\" and \"residency permit\".

Selected response from:

Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 16:54
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for your help
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1In common French parlance, the same thing, but see discussion below
Hermeneutica
4visa / residence permit
Conor McAuley
4residence permit
mckinnc
4Resident permit
Rachel Davenport
4residence card/permit
Béatrice Öman
3immigrant status and immigration permit
reblack
4 -1green card
PaoloM
1 -1EU and non-EU?
CMJ_Trans (X)


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
green card


Explanation:
if in the U.S.A.

PaoloM
Local time: 16:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  PHYSICIST: that would only be for the USA
2483 days
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
immigrant status and immigration permit


Explanation:
My first reaction would be to agree with resident permit but, as I remember from living in France, getting residency was an entirely different ball park (mairie not prefecture). Your 'titre de sejour' says what kind of visa you have (student, tourist, work, etc) and your 'carte de sejour' is the actual document that you present to officials, etc.


    Reference: http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/immstatemp.htm
    Reference: http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/immstatemp.htm
reblack
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
residence card/permit


Explanation:
carte de séjour = residence card
titre de séjour = residence permit
The difference is that one is the actual permission to stay (paper), the other one is the alternative of the national identity card given to foreigners (plastic). I've had both in every country I've lived. However, both are really proof of your right to stay, so both can be called 'titre', but only one is a 'carte' ... strange.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2005-04-28 09:09:54 GMT)
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PS: Upon further thought, I do admit that this only works in countries where foreigners actually _do_ get a card...

Béatrice Öman
Local time: 16:54
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in FrenchFrench
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Resident permit


Explanation:
Resident permit

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2005-04-28 09:10:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For me they are the same thing. Perhaps resident status and resident permit, If you really had to make a difference between the two.

Rachel Davenport
France
Local time: 16:54
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): -1
EU and non-EU?


Explanation:
In the old days - i.e. until very recently, an EU national living in France needed a "carte de séjour". This is no longer true but some people still have them because they were valid for 10 years....
A "titre de séjour" would then be for non-EU people

As an alternative: a "titre de séjour" may be the generic term and a "carte de séjour" a specific type therefore

resident's permit and EU resident's permit

This is just an idea - I am not sure at all

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 16:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 163

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Hermeneutica: Wrong, we still need them. In actual language usage it's one and the same thing.
10 hrs
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
residence permit


Explanation:
I think both would be translated as the above. I believe there is one main type (for EU nationals anyway), the carte de séjour, which incidentally is no longer required although the news has yet to filter down to the frontline stff actually dealing with these matters. You need to quote the appropriate EU legisalation if challenged by your local préfecture. This generally shuts them up. There may be different types for non-EU nationals.

When you work for an international organisation you are given a diferent one, from the Foreign Ministry - it's called a "titre de séjour spécial".

mckinnc
Local time: 16:54
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
visa / residence permit


Explanation:
In France, anyway, a "titre de séjour" is a residency document, which may be rendered in English as "visa". A "carte de séjour" (of which I have one, which lasts 10 years for EU nationals) is a long-term residency document.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2005-04-28 09:39:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/rubriques/a/a4_publications/sej...

The whole doc should be useful, but see in particular page 2:

La durée de séjour en France

\"L\'ordonnance du 2 novembre 1945 modifiée permet de délivrer des ***titres de séjour valables***, soit 1 an au plus (***carte de séjour*** temporaire), soit de dix ans et renouvelables de plein droit (*la carte de résident*), soit encore à validité permanente (*carte de ressortissant communautaire*).

It seems from this that \"titre de séjour\" is a cover-all term meaning \"residency document\", and that \"carte de séjour\"s are issued to nationals of specific countries.

If I were you, I would normally go with the old \"original in italics + short gloss\" formula, but in a HR context you will probably need to use \"residency document\" and \"residency permit\".



Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 16:54
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for your help
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
In common French parlance, the same thing, but see discussion below


Explanation:
The French use both indistinctly to mean the "card". If you want to get legal, then the "titre" would be the entitlement, but in France you'd have to show them the text of some law or another in that case, and the "carte" is, well, the plastified card.

This is a bit like being a British subject, national or citizen.

So, for your Russian Federation, I would go with

"immigrant visa" and "residence permit" to distinguish between the documented status or entitlement and the proof therof, i.e. the card.

Best of luck!

Dee

Hermeneutica
Switzerland
Local time: 16:54
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  literary85
4033 days
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