mélange

09:50 Oct 11, 2019
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Insurance / Insurance policy exclusions
French term or phrase: mélange
I am translating an insurance policy with utter disregard to punctuation, paragraphs and grammar. Fun.

Issued by a Moroccan insurance company:

Sont exclus...
Les dommages provoqués par la pollution, contamination, épidémie et mélange ainsi que les dommages aux biens mobiliers, comme les marchandises, le matériel situés en plein air ou sous abri et dus aux intempéries,


I have drawn a blank at every turn.
Many thanks for your assistance.

Wendy
Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:01


Summary of answers provided
3infiltration
SafeTex
2cross-contamination
Adrian MM.
3 -2mixture
Eliza Hall
3 -3pandemic
SafeTex


Discussion entries: 25





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -3
pandemic


Explanation:
Hi

I think this is "mélange homogène" (see 1st reference) and is worse than an epidemic (see 2nd reference)


    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hpYuDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA677&lpg=PA677&dq=m%C3%A9lange+homog%C3%A8ne+%C3%A9pid%C3%A9mie&source=bl&ots=woV4lYENd
    https://www.mansfieldct.org/Schools/MMS/staff/hand/immnotes.htm
SafeTex
France
Local time: 03:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Eliza Hall: It sounds like you didn't understand what "mélange homogène" meant in that Google book (see discussion).
10 hrs
  -> idem see my answer

disagree  Daryo: "Pandemic: When an epidemic spreads throughout the world" (a repeat of the 1918 flu?) sounds overdramatic for an insurance covering only one country // ref says "mélange homogène des individus"=> it's about the people/ the statistical population
1 day 16 hrs
  -> Hello Daryo:This may be wrong but the full contact of individuals in the explanation does lead to a pandemic. My other suggestion in discussions may be better as you said.

disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: really can't see why pandemic would follow epidemic? Your other entry may be more on point.
4 days
  -> Pandemics may be wrong so please go with my second suggestion.
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
mixture


Explanation:
Is this a chemical, petroleum or similar industry? I found "mélange" used in a Moroccan insurance context here:

"L'estimation du SMP [sinistre maximum possible] : représente l'évaluation d'un sinistre potentiel que provoquerait le mélange
gazeux le plus important envisageable..."
https://unctad.org/en/PublicationsLibrary/diae_insurance1990... (p.21)

And in a French insurance context here:

"EVENEMENTS DIRECTS EXCLUS
La pollution ou un mélange accidentel sauf en ce qui concerne les biens de l'assuré, s'ils sont la conséquence d'un événement garanti au titre du contrat."
https://lorraine.msa.fr/lfy/documents/98910/83272040/Lot 2 -...

So I think it's just talking about mixtures that cause damage (mixtures of chemical substances or whatever).

Eliza Hall
United States
Local time: 21:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: You might be onto something, but I find this single word strange and your first ref is the only one I am able to find in relation to insurance
10 mins
  -> The second ref also is in relation to insurance. The single word is strange in FR too -- that's why we're discussing it :)

disagree  SafeTex: Even if this turns out to be right, I'm sure you can't say what TYPE of mixture and you have simply given us a dictionary definition like you recently did with "espace juridique" We can all do that. Why do you think translators would ask such questions?
49 mins
  -> I can't say what type because the posted sentence, by itself, doesn't say what type. Mélange is either 1. clear when the whole contract is read; 2. clear because the insurance industry has defined it; or 3. ambiguous (unclear in context of the contract).

agree  Ph_B: See discussion.
3 hrs
  -> Merci.

neutral  Daryo: it is about some kind of "mixture" that will be doing no good to whatever is insured, but not necessarily a mixture of that kind
1 day 5 hrs
  -> I agree with you. That's why I just put "mixture" as the translation, and then referenced specific types of mixtures that have come up in the insurance context.

disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: Single word makes no sense whatsoever and disagree with Ph_B who sees "no ambiguity"
3 days 14 hrs
  -> The examples show that it makes sense: certain substances or chemicals are harmless unless they're combined (accidentally or maliciously). Harm caused by such mixtures is excluded from coverage.

disagree  Adrian MM.: So ambiguous, tapering to the point of meaningless.
3 days 16 hrs
  -> Ergo, the contract is ambiguous. Which is something the client needs to know. By letting them know, we've done our job as translators.
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2 days 42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
infiltration


Explanation:
Hello

i remain convinced that mélange, in "épidémie et mélange" cannot be "mixture" especially as the writer has already said "pollution, contamination"

In the discussion, I gave the opinion of a aide worker who said that "mélange" is short for ***mélange*** de déchets

"Les inondations peuvent entraîner le ***mélange*** de déchets contaminés avec des sources d'eau potable, ce qui peut provoquer des épidémies.

Source:https://www.stopcholera.org/sites/cholera/files/manual_for_c...

This would probably be "infiltration" as a search on Internet shows.

I'm sure that the answer is not "mélange" ("mixtures of chemical substances or whatever") which is simply to take the first translation of "mélange" in a dictionary and to stick it into a translation where it makes no real sense.

And why take "mixture" which is only one possible translation of "mélange"?

We all know what mélange means in general and so if someone asks a question like this, there is a REASON (like the recent question on "espace juridique")

Regards

SafeTex



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 11 hrs (2019-10-13 21:15:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note Adrian MM's reference and "cross contamination". This might even be better.


    https://www.who.int/cholera/publications/final%20outbreak%20booklet%20260105-OMS.pdf
    Reference: http://shura.shu.ac.uk/20811/1/10702915.pdf
SafeTex
France
Local time: 03:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Adrian MM.: forum.wordreference.com/threads/cross-contamination.1423054 Il s'agit d'un mélange accidentel de deux substances incompatibles. En français, ça se dit "contamination croisée".
10 hrs
  -> Thanks. We have to work the questions somtimes and your reference helps put everyone on the right track. I'm open to other suggestions too based on "cross contamination" if you want to put it up

disagree  Eliza Hall: Pollution and contamination aren't mixtures. Harmful mixtures include e.g. bleach and ammonia (two household substances that become lethal when combined). Many other household or industrial chemicals are harmless unless mixed together.
2 days 2 hrs
  -> All the recent discussion tends to support my idea of "infiltration" and Adrian's suggestion of "cross-contamination" stems from my own idea. You often like to disagree with me on principle but that does not help anyone, including yourself.
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2 days 11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
cross-contamination


Explanation:
Note SafeTex's caveat: the writer has already said "pollution, contamination".

Blood products or chemicals, difficult to say in the confusing context.

This proposition also assumes a correct spelling and no typo, such as la néningite.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 11 hrs (2019-10-13 21:45:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

la méningite > meningitis.

Example sentence(s):
  • Il s'agit d'un mélange accidentel de deux substances incompatibles. En français, ça se dit "contamination croisée".

    Reference: http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/cross-contamination.1...
Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  SafeTex: this too could be right in some circumstances and "infiltration" in others. I have posted a heads up in the discussion about this just before you posted it as a suggestion
20 mins
  -> Yes, thx. I originally thought this was a euphemism for unspeakable diseases.

disagree  Eliza Hall: "Cross-contamination" in FR = contamination croisée. Your WR ref is wrong (cross-contamination doesn't mean mélange accidentel). PS um, what's your basis for your strange claim that logic operates differently in the Maghreb?!
1 day 15 hrs
  -> The source-country is Morocco. So your logic is fallacious for the Maghreb.// Translational idiosyncracies and a host of FRE/ENG queries in office and on ProZ from that part of the world.
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