Sauf à nier tout effet à la personnalité morale

English translation: see explanation

14:22 Apr 7, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
French term or phrase: Sauf à nier tout effet à la personnalité morale
**Sauf à nier tout effet à la personnalité morale** dont jouissent ces deux sociétés, il va de soi que l'une ne peut être tenue de répondre des fautes imputées à l'autre.

I'm struggling with this phrase, can anybody help, thanks in advance :)
Sonya Mountford-Jones
Local time: 03:59
English translation:see explanation
Explanation:
"personne morale" is approx. = a legal entity (as distinct in French from a "personne physique" = an individual, a human being).
The "personnalité morale" is, if you like, the state of being a "personne morale". You do sometimes see the phrase "legal personality" in English to refer to the same thing.

If you turn the sentence round, it becomes easier to understand, IMO.
It means something like:

"It goes without saying that one company cannot be held responsible for the other company's breaches (or infringements, whatever word you decide) without (therefore) (effectively) denying that the two companies are separate legal entities (or perhaps "separate entities in law")."
You may decide to spice it up into legalese, but that is the meaning behind it.
However, I do think you need to reverse the order of the sentence to make it more understandable in English.


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Note added at 2 hrs 49 mins (2005-04-07 17:11:37 GMT)
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alternative for \"denying that\": \"rejecting the notion that\"
Selected response from:

Charlie Bavington (X)
Local time: 03:59
Grading comment
Thanks Charlie
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2see explanation
Charlie Bavington (X)
5legal status of these two companies are denied,
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)


  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
see explanation


Explanation:
"personne morale" is approx. = a legal entity (as distinct in French from a "personne physique" = an individual, a human being).
The "personnalité morale" is, if you like, the state of being a "personne morale". You do sometimes see the phrase "legal personality" in English to refer to the same thing.

If you turn the sentence round, it becomes easier to understand, IMO.
It means something like:

"It goes without saying that one company cannot be held responsible for the other company's breaches (or infringements, whatever word you decide) without (therefore) (effectively) denying that the two companies are separate legal entities (or perhaps "separate entities in law")."
You may decide to spice it up into legalese, but that is the meaning behind it.
However, I do think you need to reverse the order of the sentence to make it more understandable in English.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 49 mins (2005-04-07 17:11:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

alternative for \"denying that\": \"rejecting the notion that\"

Charlie Bavington (X)
Local time: 03:59
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 106
Grading comment
Thanks Charlie

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dennis Mahony: Coherent, concise, well thought-out and grammatical.
4 hrs
  -> thanks for that, very kind

agree  Sarah Walls
6 hrs
  -> thank you.
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
legal status of these two companies are denied,


Explanation:
There you go...

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Note added at 13 mins (2005-04-07 14:36:07 GMT)
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Sorryy


Unless all the effects deriving from the legal status of these two companies are denied,

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Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2005-04-07 18:08:24 GMT)
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It can be taken for granted that one of the companies cannot be held liable for the wrongful acts of the other unless all the effects deriving from the legal status of these two companies are denied.

ie meaning they are separate entities and cannot be seen as one

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Note added at 3 hrs 47 mins (2005-04-07 18:09:52 GMT)
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correct: the legal effect deriving from the legal status of these two companies is denied. singular is better.

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Note added at 3 hrs 47 mins (2005-04-07 18:10:24 GMT)
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It\'s always a good idea to go with Subject Verb Object in English...

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 406
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