et qui auraient le même objet.

English translation: and which pertain/pertaining to the same subject

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	et qui auraient le même objet.
English translation:	and which pertain/pertaining to the same subject
Entered by:	Yvonne Gallagher

11:01 Jun 15, 2014

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Contract between producer

French term or phrase: et qui auraient le même objet.

Obviously I understand the gist of this regarding the same issues or intention, but I cannot see where this fits into the phrasing (and therefore its accurate meaning) or if there may be a more standard term I could use. The context reads:

"Le présent contrat annule et remplace tous accords écrits et/ou verbaux intervenus entre les filiales de [company A] d’une part et chacun des Fournisseurs ([Company B], [Company C]) d’autre part avant la signature des présentes et qui auraient le même objet."

So far I have translated:

"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements made between the subsidiaries of both [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signng this contract...?"

Lara Barnett KudoZ activity Questions: 2102 (7 open) (12 without valid answers) (216 closed without grading) Answers: 1884 United Kingdom
Local time: 12:05

and pertaining to the same subject

Explanation:
the contract or clause have the same subject

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Note added at 6 mins (2014-06-15 11:08:15 GMT)
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or reason

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Note added at 17 mins (2014-06-15 11:19:01 GMT)
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Repositioning the phrase

"This contact cancels and replaces all written and/or verbal agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been made between the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to signing this contract...?

I would omit "both" as there are 3 companies involved A, B and C

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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:02:39 GMT)
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slightly reworded. Other wordings are possible to best suit context

This contract cancels and replaces (OR supercedes) all written and/or oral agreements, which pertain/pertaining to the same subject, which have been drawn up/established/made between the Parties, viz. the subsidiaries of [company A] and the two Suppliers ([Company B] and [Company C]) prior to the signing of this contract

Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 12:05

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +5

and pertaining to the same subject

Yvonne Gallagher

5 +1

And which share the same object; - have the same object.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

with the same subject matter

John Farebrother

3 +1

and having the same purpose

DLyons

with respect to its subject matter

Evgeny Artemov (X)

3 +1

and having the same purport

Adrian MM. (X)

Discussion entries: 6

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

15:23 Jun 15, 2014

Hope I have managed to get across the dfference between "subject" and "object" of a contract.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

cat among the pigeons

15:22 Jun 15, 2014

Might I throw the proverbial cat among the proverbial pigeons here?
The "subject" or "subject matter" of a contract describes the general theme of its content. That is not the same thing as what is meant by the term "objet", which I suggest translates more accurately as "object" or "purpose". The object/purpose strike at the heart of the reason why the parties have entered into a contract in the first place.

Example :
The (lawful) object of a contract might be for A to supply packaging to company B. The subject of the contract is the packaging. The object of the contract is for 1 to supply B with that packaging.
Why have A and B entered into a contract? As A can supply B with what he wants and is prepared to provide consideration for.
For A to supply B with packaging is a lawful object.

Example 2 : C offers to supply D with heroin for which D agees to provide consideration. The subject is heroin. The object is the supply of heroin.
It will be news to noone that whilst heroin may exist legally in a location L, that of itself may not be illegal. If C and D enter into a contract for heroin to be supplied, on English soil, the object of the contract will be unlawful.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

13:35 Jun 15, 2014

Suggestions :

- for "both... and the two Suppliers" : you might prefer "both... and each of the Suppliers"

Yvonne Gallagher

Ireland

13:32 Jun 15, 2014

@ Francis
I already suggested doing that...

Francis Marche

France

13:28 Jun 15, 2014

If you could cancel and replace "cancels and replaces" with "supersede", i.e. the very E term French translators translate as "annule et remplace" for want of a strict one-word F equivalent, your translation would read soooo much smoother and more natural and so much less "traduit du" ;-)

Gad Kohenov

Israel

It should be a French>English question...

11:06 Jun 15, 2014

not an English>English one.

Answers

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

and having the same purpose

Explanation:
*

DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 12:05
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 32

12 mins confidence:

with respect to its subject matter

Explanation:
This is the usual language of the Entire Agreement clause.

Evgeny Artemov (X)
South Africa
Local time: 13:05
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Russian
PRO pts in category: 16

1 hr confidence:

with the same subject matter

Explanation:
any prior agreements covering the same subject matter

John Farebrother
United Kingdom
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 11

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

and pertaining to the same subject

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 12:05
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 102

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Tony M: Yes, and I would be tempted to move the position of this phrase in the sentence, in order to make the meaning clearer by bringing it closer to the subject of the verb, doing away with the lengthy interruption of the subordinate clause. / Not 'reason'

5 mins

-> Thanks Tony, yes, I'd reposition also. See above.//yep meant "purpose" but "subject" is the more common legal phrase anyway

agree

katsy

12 mins

-> Thanks Katsy:-)

agree

writeaway: yes, subject oeuf corse but don't agree with the full "repositioned" translation. purpose is wrong in any case.

1 hr

-> Thanks (I was just using "reason/purpose" to try to explain in simple terms "subject" (of the contract) which is what I always use.)

agree

Daryo

2 hrs

-> many thanks Daryo:-)

neutral

Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes, for "supersede". (Thank you, that was driving me mad; I knew there was a term somewhere)! "Object" though or "purpose" too, precisely the terms used, rather than "subject" with which I disagree.// Source for "subect"?

3 hrs

-> yes, supercede is better. "Subject" is correct for contracts.

agree

B D Finch

6 hrs

-> Many thanks Barbara:-)

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

And which share the same object; - have the same object.

Explanation:
Present tense in English for this part.
The choice of the term "objet" is significant in contract law.
In order for any contract to be valid, there are a certain number of clauses which are indispensible, one of which must clearly indicate the object of the contract. The object must, naturally enough, be lawful.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-06-15 13:46:36 GMT)
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http://youcanwin.hubpages.com/hub/Essentials-of-a-valid-Cont...

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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:03:21 GMT)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

In common law legal systems, a contract (or informally known as an agreement in some jurisdictions) is an agreement having a lawful object entered into voluntarily by two or more parties, each of whom intends to create one or more legal obligations between them. The elements of a contract are "offer" and "acceptance" by "competent persons" having legal capacity who exchange "consideration" to create "mutuality of obligation."[1]

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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-15 14:44:17 GMT)
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Extract from my first reference :
"Lawful Object: The objective of the agreement must be lawful. Any act prohibited by law will not be valid and such agreements cannot be treated as a valid contract. A rents out his house for the business of prostitution or for making bomb, the acts performing there are unlawful. Hence such agreement cannot be treated as a valid contract. Therefore the consideration as well as the object of the agreement should be lawful."

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 13:05
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 451

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Yvonne Gallagher: In my early days of contracts I translated "objet" as "object" and was told to use "subject" instead. "object" or "purpose" imo are not correct for contracts

1 hr

-> Looks as though we disagree. In my legal training, academic and professional, "object" was used. // Subject matter of a contract is much more general. The "object" or "purpose" relates to the reason why the parties have entered into a contract at all.

neutral

B D Finch: You are, of course, right about a contract having an object. However, I am not convinced that is the correct term here. This really turns on what is covered by "objet" in the French.

3 hrs

agree

Germaine: https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=cr,ssl#q=supersedes "any previ...

12 hrs

11 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

and having the same purport

Explanation:
Dodges and fudges the subject-matter vs. object or purpose conundrum, purport straddling purview and point.

Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_contracts/29...
Reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/purport

Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 13:05
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 858

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