marchés et contrats

English translation: building contracts or other contracts

09:42 Feb 20, 2018
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase: marchés et contrats
Règlement de Copropriété

Section concerning the conseil syndical.

"Le conseil syndical contrôle la gestion du syndic, en particulier la comptabilité du Syndicat, la répartition des dépenses, les conditions dans lesquelles sont passés et exécutés les marchés et tous autres contrats, ainsi que l'élaboration du budget prévisionnel dont il suit l'exécution."

When I've encountered this "marché" / "contrat" differentiation I've usually just put "contracts". In certain contexts, however, there can be a sense that marché = public contract and contrat therefore = private contract.

Here, however, the notary/lawyer really has me a bit stumped: there is no possibility that "public contracts" are involved. Yet they are clearly convinced there are two types of instrument here, and only one can be translated by "contract".

Perhaps "contracts and all other agreements"? Maybe they mean that one of the two is concerned with one-off commissioned jobs, whereas the other might be more like service contracts... ?
Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:55
English translation:building contracts or other contracts
Explanation:
It's a common misconception that marché only refers to public appropriations.

The term is also used for the concept of marché de travaux privé (such as the marché à forfait) which is private. There is no requirement to issue a call for tenders, and it's essentially the equivalent of a building contract.

As far as I can tell, iit seems fairly clear that that's what's being referred to.
Selected response from:

charleseddy
France
Local time: 05:55
Grading comment
Thanks... I think this is closest: I think the "contrat" part refers to things like on-going utility contracts, as opposed to one-off building repair contracts...
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2tendered-out and other contracts
AllegroTrans
4 +2tenders and contracts
B D Finch
5building contracts or other contracts
charleseddy
Summary of reference entries provided
Cornu Vocabulaire juridique
fourth

Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
tendered-out and other contracts


Explanation:
I think the reason the notary is saying there are no public contrcats is that this is a managing agent for properties and they simply get quotes from a small number of firms (I imagine just three) before meeting and voting on which one to accept. So they would not publicly tender.

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Note added at 32 mins (2018-02-20 10:15:54 GMT)
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Some general info on syndics:
https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/housing/buying-prope...

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Note added at 45 mins (2018-02-20 10:28:41 GMT)
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This short piece from an explanation of what a syndic does:
What does the syndic do?

What exactly the syndic will do must be written in a contract. It will also determine what notice has to be given. The syndic is, in the first place, the person who executes the decisions of the owners’ association. For investments and works over a certain threshold, the syndic has to get several quotes; the owners decide what that threshold is. That should prevent the syndic from favouring certain contractors.

http://www.xpats.com/everything-you-always-wanted-know-about...

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1016
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks... actually it's me, not the notary, who's saying there are no public contracts involved: this is a bog standard private property development...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ph-b: Would "procurement and other contracts" also work? Is "procurement" just for public contracts?/B D Finch makes a valid point.
4 hrs
  -> I think procurement works, technically, but I associate the term with public contracts

neutral  B D Finch: Perhaps this is nitpicking, but you don't "tender out" a contract, you invite tenders for a contract, but the contract only comes into existence after (and if) a tender is accepted.
2 days 7 hrs
  -> OK

neutral  fourth: Managing agents of co-ownership properties generally ask for estimates. Tenders are unlikely.And it's still a contract
2 days 20 hrs
  -> I have seen requirements to tender (above a certain cost threshold) in Statutes of Co-ownership Associations that I have translated

agree  IanDhu
15 days
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22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
building contracts or other contracts


Explanation:
It's a common misconception that marché only refers to public appropriations.

The term is also used for the concept of marché de travaux privé (such as the marché à forfait) which is private. There is no requirement to issue a call for tenders, and it's essentially the equivalent of a building contract.

As far as I can tell, iit seems fairly clear that that's what's being referred to.


    https://www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/base-documentaire/archives-th12/archives-droit-et-organisation-generale-de-la-construction-tiacb/archive
    Reference: http://lennonleberrejoncour.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/c...
charleseddy
France
Local time: 05:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3
Grading comment
Thanks... I think this is closest: I think the "contrat" part refers to things like on-going utility contracts, as opposed to one-off building repair contracts...
Notes to answerer
Asker: Convincing... thanks.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: I don't think the term "marché" is restricted to construction.
1 day 3 hrs

neutral  AllegroTrans: Surely this could also be about repairs and maintenance contracts; it is after all a copropriété
1 day 16 hrs
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2 days 2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
tenders and contracts


Explanation:
Note that tendering procedures are not limited to the public sector and that, even in the public sector, tenders may be restricted rather than open. The use of both terms means that some contracts would not have been subject to tendering and, possibly, some tenders might not have resulted in the award of contracts.

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Note added at 2 days 2 hrs (2018-02-22 11:54:14 GMT)
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www.nationalarchives.gov.uk › About us › Our role › Transparency
Tenders and contracts. As part of the transparency agenda, the government has made the following commitments with regard to procurement and contracting: All new central government ICT contracts over the value of £10,000 are to be published in full and online from July 2010; All new central government tender ...

https://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/icac-tenders-and-contracts

ICAC tenders and contracts. All the Commission's goods, equipment and services with an estimated value, including GST, higher than $250,000 are procured via an open tender process based on a written specification pursuant to the NSW Government tender guidelines (eTendering). The Government Information (Public ...

https://www.fntp.fr/infodoc/juridique-marches/gestion.../mar...
... et concessions · Gestion contractuelle · Marchés publics · Marchés et contrats privés

www.cada.fr/marches-et-contrats-publics,35160.html
7/07/2016. avis 20162113. Communauté de communes de la Plaine de l'Ain. Lire la suite. 7/07/2016. avis 20162342. Ministère de la Transition écologique et solidaire.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 05:55
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 493

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans
13 hrs
  -> Thanks AT

neutral  fourth: Unlikely, because managing agents don't generally go through a full open tendering process, they generally ask a few contractors to give estimates. Yes I'm sure Chris but I've never seen it for co-ownership management. Can you give an example in French?
18 hrs
  -> Why? I read your reference comment, but have frequently come across the word "marché" being used to mean a tender.//Especially for a large syndic, that could, nonetheless, be a selective/closed tender.

agree  ph-b
1 day 47 mins
  -> Thanks
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Reference comments


1 day 2 hrs
Reference: Cornu Vocabulaire juridique

Reference information:
Cornu offers 33 different meanings for "marché"
The closest perhaps is

"Espèce de convention......Convention ayant pour objet la livraison de marchandises ou la fourniture de services Comp. transaction, pacte,accord"

On that basis, it would appear synonymous with "contract" and redundant here.

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-02-21 13:25:49 GMT)
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We're always thinking "Public/tenders", but "it's not necessarily so..."

fourth
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 51

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Interesting, but of course dicos don't always tell us about real life
1 day 12 hrs
  -> Chris, would you like to illustrate that in this case?
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