a priori (as it relates to costs)

English translation: associated costs (presumably the maintenance costs)

20:29 Aug 7, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase: a priori (as it relates to costs)
Hello, I am translating a contract and am not quite sure what "a priori" means in this context:

"Enfin, XXXXXX va demander à YYYY de payer la location d’une unité de fabrication de résine, avec les coûts associés (a priori la maintenance)."

I'm not quite sure on the relationship between maintenance and associated costs.

Like is the translation something like "YYY will pay... the associated costs (such as maintenance)"
or "...associated costs (including, in principle, maintenance)",
or is it something like "...associated costs (i.e. maintenance)"?


Thanks for any help you can provide
nonaga
Local time: 00:03
English translation:associated costs (presumably the maintenance costs)
Explanation:
Here "a priori" has a meaning derived from it's "usual/normal" meaning i.e. "before the event / previously & similar"

what they mean is "BEFORE we know what this costs are exactly, we can reasonably assume that it's about maintenance costs"

in this use of "a priori" there is NO implied connotation of "priority/importance" whatsoever, it's about "what it would it expected to be"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-08-07 22:28:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in fact, you could also simply leave "a priori", depending on the target audience.

a priori
A priori literally means "from before." If you know how many red, white, and blue gum balls are in the gum ball machine, this a priori knowledge can help you predict the color of the next ones to be dispensed.

In Latin a priori means “what comes first.” A priori understandings are the assumptions that come before the rest of the assessment, argument, or analysis. If you are making an argument that pre-school children who are read to at home by family members come to school better prepared to learn, the a priori understanding is that children learn by hearing before they are able to read.

Thesaurus
Definitions of
a priori
1
adj involving deductive reasoning from a general principle to a necessary effect; not supported by fact
“an a priori judgment”

Synonyms:
analytic, analytical
of a proposition that is necessarily true independent of fact or experience
deductive
involving inferences from general principles
Antonyms:
a posteriori
involving reasoning from facts or particulars to general principles or from effects to causes
show more antonyms...

adj based on hypothesis or theory rather than experiment
Synonyms:
theoretic, theoretical
concerned primarily with theories or hypotheses rather than practical considerations

adv derived by logic, without observed facts

Antonyms:
a posteriori
derived from observed facts

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/a priori


also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_priori_and_a_posteriori

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-07 22:33:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"what it would be expected to be"


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-07 22:43:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Enfin, XXX va demander à YYY de payer la location d’une unité de fabrication de résine, avec les coûts associés (a priori la maintenance)."
=
... will ask YYY to pay the rent/lease(?) for ..., including the related / associated costs (which could be expected to be / which would be most likely the costs of maintenance)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-08-08 08:52:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

short version:

the only kind "priority" that is implied in "a priori" is the "priority" on a timeline (same as in "prior art" when talking of patents)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-08-08 08:53:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the only kind of "priority" ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-08-12 15:24:14 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

more "... what these costs are ..."
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
Grading comment
thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2first and foremost
Adrian MM.
4 +1...including the attendant costs (maintenance probably)
Francois Boye
4 -1associated costs (presumably the maintenance costs)
Daryo


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
first and foremost


Explanation:
- also retains the flavo(u)r of the original Latin meaning.

Note the spelling of foremost, not to be confused with the Fourmost, a Merseybeat group or 'band' of the early Swinging Sixties.


    Reference: http://french-to-english/business-commerce-general/990746-a-...
Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 50

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M
5 mins
  -> Merci and thanks.

disagree  Daryo: you are repeating the same misinterpretation as in https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/business-commer... NOTHING to do with "priority=more important" it's simply "priority" in time before s.t. happens/is known
39 mins
  -> It means pre-eminently. Compare with 'notamment' - not notably, but including. // Legalistically, in every legal Latin dictionary, a priori - first of all - stands in contradistinction to a posteriori - after the event.

agree  B D Finch: Why not just keep it as "a priori"?
12 hrs
  -> OK - 'when in doubt. translate literally' was the byword of my City law firm Paris & Madrid. The only problem is that, in ENG. law, a priori is a line of reasoning: 'from cause to effect; from previous assumptions': L.B. Curzon, dictionary of (ENG) law.

agree  AllegroTrans: I would keep it as "a priori"
16 hrs
  -> Thanks. That's one way-out (cop-out?).

agree  Lara Barnett
1 day 17 hrs
  -> Thanks, merci and grazie!

disagree  Germaine: = d'abord et avant tout. Rien à voir avec "a priori". Vous confondez avec "Primo", "ab initio" ou alors - en forçant beaucoup - avec "a fortiori"
6 days
  -> The question has now closed. So all that can be done 'a posteriori' is - as I had advised Daryo - to double-check the meaning of a priori in every legal Latin dictionary going.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
...including the attendant costs (maintenance probably)


Explanation:
A priorii here means a conjecture as to the unavoidable attendant costs.

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 03:03
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 88

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: that's roughly the idea, but why do you need to talk of anything "unavoidable" to explain this use of "a priori" ??? There is nothing "unavoidable" in YYY being asked to pay not only the lease, but also some other costs, and is unrelated to "a priori" ...
12 mins
  ->  a conjecture as to the unavoidable attendant costs.

agree  Ph_B: with "probably". There's an element of uncertainty in a priori - although "probably" is just as odd as a priori in a (so-called) contract.
9 hrs
  -> thanks!

neutral  Tony M: Although this is along the right lines, it would not fit at all well in the context/register of a contract
11 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
les coûts associés (a priori la maintenance)
associated costs (presumably the maintenance costs)


Explanation:
Here "a priori" has a meaning derived from it's "usual/normal" meaning i.e. "before the event / previously & similar"

what they mean is "BEFORE we know what this costs are exactly, we can reasonably assume that it's about maintenance costs"

in this use of "a priori" there is NO implied connotation of "priority/importance" whatsoever, it's about "what it would it expected to be"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2019-08-07 22:28:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in fact, you could also simply leave "a priori", depending on the target audience.

a priori
A priori literally means "from before." If you know how many red, white, and blue gum balls are in the gum ball machine, this a priori knowledge can help you predict the color of the next ones to be dispensed.

In Latin a priori means “what comes first.” A priori understandings are the assumptions that come before the rest of the assessment, argument, or analysis. If you are making an argument that pre-school children who are read to at home by family members come to school better prepared to learn, the a priori understanding is that children learn by hearing before they are able to read.

Thesaurus
Definitions of
a priori
1
adj involving deductive reasoning from a general principle to a necessary effect; not supported by fact
“an a priori judgment”

Synonyms:
analytic, analytical
of a proposition that is necessarily true independent of fact or experience
deductive
involving inferences from general principles
Antonyms:
a posteriori
involving reasoning from facts or particulars to general principles or from effects to causes
show more antonyms...

adj based on hypothesis or theory rather than experiment
Synonyms:
theoretic, theoretical
concerned primarily with theories or hypotheses rather than practical considerations

adv derived by logic, without observed facts

Antonyms:
a posteriori
derived from observed facts

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/a priori


also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_priori_and_a_posteriori

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-07 22:33:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"what it would be expected to be"


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2019-08-07 22:43:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Enfin, XXX va demander à YYY de payer la location d’une unité de fabrication de résine, avec les coûts associés (a priori la maintenance)."
=
... will ask YYY to pay the rent/lease(?) for ..., including the related / associated costs (which could be expected to be / which would be most likely the costs of maintenance)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-08-08 08:52:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

short version:

the only kind "priority" that is implied in "a priori" is the "priority" on a timeline (same as in "prior art" when talking of patents)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2019-08-08 08:53:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the only kind of "priority" ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-08-12 15:24:14 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

more "... what these costs are ..."

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 163
Grading comment
thank you!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you so much Daryo! I found all your explanations very helpful. Thank you also Adrian and BD. I agree "presumably" is not a great term to use in a contract. Sorry it was my mistake that I typed this was from a "contract", it was from "notes on discussion on a contract".


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ph_B: with "presumably". There's an element of uncertainty in a priori - although "presumably" is just as odd as a priori in a (so-called) contract./Agreed.
8 hrs
  -> agree it wouldn't have its place in a properly drafted contract/ This sounds more like a discussion with some adviser or a partner about how the negotiation of the contract might turn. Merci!

disagree  Adrian MM.: That construction is not within acceptable paramaters of the term.// Legalistically, a priori - first of all - stands in contradistinction to a posteriori - after the event. That is the way it is described in every legal Latin dictionary
9 hrs
  -> it might not be "within acceptable parameters" of what you expect if you see a ghost of "priority=greater importance" in a priori, but no FR dictionary / encyclopedia noticed THAT meaning ...

disagree  B D Finch: Not the correct meaning in a legal context and vague terms such as "presumably" should not be used when drafting the terms of a contract.
11 hrs
  -> Whatever Asker says, this is NOT the wording of a contract ***101% sure of that***. You are twisting the meaning of a term trying to make it fit in a presumed/misinterpreted context. Not my method.

disagree  GILOU: Encore une réponse savante...
6 days
  -> et la machine se retrouve complètement désorientée ... ? Vraiment désolé ... Or it's maybe high time to junk your MT?

agree  Germaine: http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/juridi/in...
6 days
  -> Merci!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search