Monde anglo-saxon

12:36 Jul 23, 2020
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Legal and administrative systems
French term or phrase: Monde anglo-saxon
I'm posting this one for a bit of fun and discussion, so no points (sorry).

The French, and Continental Europeans in general fondly use "anlgo-saxon" as a label for almost everything flowing from the English systems of law and government, thus we have "loi anglo-saxonne", "pays anglo-saxons" and "avocat anglo-saxon" (I wonder whether he or she carries a spear).

Whilst we can hardly stop this usage in French, Spanish etc., I have a real issue when FR->EN translators use the literal translation.

Firstly, I don't think many people in Ireland, India, Singapore or Malta (to name only a handful of countries) will take kindly to being called Anglo-Saxons.

Secondly, although it's true that the Saxons were the first race to develop the English law, little of substance can be said to remain from that period. The real foundation of Common Law was of course developed by the Norman French, post 1066, so "loi anglo-normande" would be much more accurate.

Thirdly, we know that the races of the British Isles (or Britain and Ireland as my Irish relations would insist) have numerous origins. Contemporary DNA research has shown that the Angles and Saxons made a genetic contribution that is much smaller than many think. The "rump" DNA-Y haplotype that is most widepread throughout the British Isles is that of the insular Celts who peopled Western Europe in the Bronze Age. Regional higher concentrations of, for example, Saxon and Viking DNA haplotypes exist in certain regions.

I'm no great fan of political correctness unless the purpose is to correct major wrongs but I do think the Anglo-Saxon label is wildly innacurate given that the Anglo-Saxons arrived 1500 years ago!

So can we define a "new normal" for this adjectival when used with various terms in law, government, politics, etc.? Or should there be different adjectivals depending on the subject matter?

Please don't tell me there is more than one question here! I know, and it's not for points anyway and probably won't make the glosaary.


Ic þancie þē !
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:01


Summary of answers provided
3 +3the Anglo-American world
Keith Jackson


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the Anglo-American world


Explanation:
I find it covers most cases.
I’ve also used the English-speaking world
There is Anglosphere as well, but I’m not brave enough to use it.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-07-23 14:40:14 GMT)
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I've lectured French business associates about using the term Anglo-Saxon in English!
You might like to read page 13 of the EU's Terminology Publication on Misused words, which I've copied in case the link doesn't work. More food for thought.
https://www.eca.europa.eu/Other publications/EN_TERMINOLOGY_...


Anglo-Saxon
Explanation
In English, the term ‘Anglo-Saxon’ is generally used to describe a member of any of the West Germanic tribes (Angles,
Saxons and Jutes) that settled in Britain from the 5th century AD. Also, particularly in America, it is used to denominate
white people, usually of the Protestant faith (‘WASPS’), thus excluding large swathes of the population of that country.
It follows that there is no such thing as an Anglo-Saxon country, or, as in the example below, an Anglo-Saxon agency or
Anglo-Saxon capitalism. Furthermore, the Anglo-Saxon language ceased to exist in the 12th century (I am ill-informed
about Brussels, but the last known speaker in Luxembourg was St Willibrord, 658-73922). This term is particularly
inapplicable (and, I gather, irritating for those concerned) when used to describe the Irish, Scots and Welsh, who partly
base their national identities on not being descended from the Anglo-Saxons23 (everybody seems to have forgotten
about the poor Jutes), and verges on the ridiculous when used to include West Indians or people like the incumbent US
president, who, in EU terminology, would be the leader of the Anglo-Saxon world.
Example
The Anglo-Saxon group of agencies reflect (sic) the previous dominance of Anglo-Saxon capitalism which was not disrupted
by two world wars and the specific operational issues relating to Asian economies’24.
Alternatives
‘English-speaking’ when referring to the countries or the people, ‘British’ and ‘American’ (‘Australian’ or whatever) when
referring to agencies, capitalism etc. The term may, however, be used if you are talking about something like the
(presumed) ‘Anglo-Saxon conspiracy’ and you will often find it used ironically in this way in the British press (usually in
inverted commas). However, it has negative connotations and should be avoided in any serious writing.

Keith Jackson
France
Local time: 12:01
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. Problem: There are many jurisdiction in which English is not the national language but which use the "English" model? Can we really say they are in the "Anglo-American" world? Burma, Botswana, Sierra Leone....


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  SafeTex: Let's not add insult to injury
28 mins
  -> You'll have to explain why you disagree, and what you disagree with!

agree  philgoddard: All three suggestions are correct.
1 hr
  -> thx

agree  Adrian MM.: Anglo-Am subsumes Antipodean: Oz & Kiwi or vice versa. African / Ghanian, Caribbean & Indian Sub-Continental law students pre-BLM movement had no problem with these labels-
2 hrs
  -> Thx

agree  Eliza Hall: This works, although it will probably annoy Australians (why does the US get mentioned when they don't).
5 hrs
  -> Anglo-American = British Empire + US economic might. Oz hasn't inflicted that much on the world!

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Used so much in France I come across the "English-speaking" world more often than not. I see "Anglo-Amercian" world much less often as it seems more restrictive in cultural terms that English-speaking. However, there are times when it is indeed more appr
2 days 1 hr
  -> Thx
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