"signes orthoepiques"

English translation: diacritics

13:57 Jul 30, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics / Arabic transliteration
French term or phrase: "signes orthoepiques"
I have a brief definition of these to translate: "Signes orthoépiques: signes permettant de noter différentes particularités phonétiques: la wasla marque d’éludation d’une voyelle; la shadda marque de redoublement d’une consonne; le sukun absence de voyelle; la hamza marque d’attaque glottale."

I can't find anything convincing in English using the term orthoepic and variants thereof. Any ideas?
arbizonne
English translation:diacritics
Explanation:
Although I don't know any Arabic, the marks mentioned in your text sound very much like diacritics (which the IPA also has, and that's what they're called there). And apparently this term is used for them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet (search for "diacritics")

"A distinguishing feature of the Arabic writing system (and of related systems, such as that used for Hebrew) is that short vowels are not represented by the letters of the alphabet. Instead, they are marked by so-called **diacritics**, short strokes placed either above or below the preceding consonant. Several other pronunciation phenomena are marked by diacritics, such as consonant doubling (phonemic in Arabic), which is indicated by the “shadda” sign, and the “tanween”, word-final adverbial markers which add /n/ to the pronunciation. The entire set of diacritics is listed in Table 3..."
http://www.clsp.jhu.edu/ws2002/groups/arabic/arabic-final.pd...

"There are also three **diacritics** for the indication of short vowels: Fatha (Arabic Fatha, U+064E), Kasra (Arabic Kasra, U+0650) and Damma (Arabic Damma, U+064F). They are positioned above or below the consonant preceding the vowel. When they are used a text is considered »fully vocalized«.

Other important **diacritical characters** are **Shadda** (Arabic Shadda, U+0651) which marks the doubling of a consonant, and **Hamza** (Arabic Letter Hamza, U+0621) which usually only occurs in combination with an Alif and indicates that the Alif does not stand for a vowel but marks a glottal stop. The third important diacritic is **Sukun** (Arabic Sukun, U+0652). It is needed to show that a syllable is closed (e.g. not ended by a consonant), it marks the absence of a vowel after the base consonant. In some Qur’ans it also marks a long vowel as ignored.
http://www.decodeunicode.org/en/arabic

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-07-30 15:40:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See also this definition of "diacritic":

A mark, such as the cedilla of façade or the acute accent of resumé, added to a letter **to indicate a special phonetic value** or distinguish words that are otherwise graphically identical.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/diacritic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-07-30 18:32:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That's interesting, since as far as I'm aware no such distinction is made in English. What do they use "signe diacritique" to mean in your text, i.e. what are the other subdivisions? Because I don't see on what basis they're differentiating between the two; surely both refer to the phonetic realisation of sounds?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2007-07-30 19:06:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see, thanks - I understand the dilemma now, since they're using "diacritiques" to refer to things that stop two different letters of the alphabet (consonants) from looking identical, whereas "signe orthoepique" is being used to mean symbols which affect the phonetic realisation of either consonants (redoublement = gemination) or vowels. And in English, unfortunately, "diacritic" can mean either of those things.

I'm going to keep thinking about this as I'll have to do a bit of research on Arabic script, but for the moment I'm wondering if this would be a solution: it seems the Arabic term "harakat" is used to describe a group of diacritics including the ones you have there, and does not include the dots used to distinguish between graphemes. So maybe that could work? Because on the basis of what your additional context says, it does seem the distinction is relevant and needs to be made somehow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harakat
Selected response from:

Peter Shortall
Local time: 10:46
Grading comment
Harakat looks like what I'm after. Thanks so much - I'd never have found that on my own.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1diacritics
Peter Shortall
3orthoepical signs/aspects/markers/indicators
liz askew


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
orthoepical signs/aspects/markers/indicators


Explanation:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:6a00nrURqbsJ:www.sil.org/...

orthoepy

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:jPL1Ib2YnJUJ:www.thefreed...

orthoepical


liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:46
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jim Tucker (X): "orthoepic" in English generally refers to normative pronunciation of a language. You will hear talk of "orthoepic revision" for example...// check meaning of its use there, whether its pron. aid or normal feature of orthography
1 hr
  -> There are reliable UK sites with "orthoepic/orthoepical".
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
diacritics


Explanation:
Although I don't know any Arabic, the marks mentioned in your text sound very much like diacritics (which the IPA also has, and that's what they're called there). And apparently this term is used for them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet (search for "diacritics")

"A distinguishing feature of the Arabic writing system (and of related systems, such as that used for Hebrew) is that short vowels are not represented by the letters of the alphabet. Instead, they are marked by so-called **diacritics**, short strokes placed either above or below the preceding consonant. Several other pronunciation phenomena are marked by diacritics, such as consonant doubling (phonemic in Arabic), which is indicated by the “shadda” sign, and the “tanween”, word-final adverbial markers which add /n/ to the pronunciation. The entire set of diacritics is listed in Table 3..."
http://www.clsp.jhu.edu/ws2002/groups/arabic/arabic-final.pd...

"There are also three **diacritics** for the indication of short vowels: Fatha (Arabic Fatha, U+064E), Kasra (Arabic Kasra, U+0650) and Damma (Arabic Damma, U+064F). They are positioned above or below the consonant preceding the vowel. When they are used a text is considered »fully vocalized«.

Other important **diacritical characters** are **Shadda** (Arabic Shadda, U+0651) which marks the doubling of a consonant, and **Hamza** (Arabic Letter Hamza, U+0621) which usually only occurs in combination with an Alif and indicates that the Alif does not stand for a vowel but marks a glottal stop. The third important diacritic is **Sukun** (Arabic Sukun, U+0652). It is needed to show that a syllable is closed (e.g. not ended by a consonant), it marks the absence of a vowel after the base consonant. In some Qur’ans it also marks a long vowel as ignored.
http://www.decodeunicode.org/en/arabic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-07-30 15:40:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See also this definition of "diacritic":

A mark, such as the cedilla of façade or the acute accent of resumé, added to a letter **to indicate a special phonetic value** or distinguish words that are otherwise graphically identical.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/diacritic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-07-30 18:32:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That's interesting, since as far as I'm aware no such distinction is made in English. What do they use "signe diacritique" to mean in your text, i.e. what are the other subdivisions? Because I don't see on what basis they're differentiating between the two; surely both refer to the phonetic realisation of sounds?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2007-07-30 19:06:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see, thanks - I understand the dilemma now, since they're using "diacritiques" to refer to things that stop two different letters of the alphabet (consonants) from looking identical, whereas "signe orthoepique" is being used to mean symbols which affect the phonetic realisation of either consonants (redoublement = gemination) or vowels. And in English, unfortunately, "diacritic" can mean either of those things.

I'm going to keep thinking about this as I'll have to do a bit of research on Arabic script, but for the moment I'm wondering if this would be a solution: it seems the Arabic term "harakat" is used to describe a group of diacritics including the ones you have there, and does not include the dots used to distinguish between graphemes. So maybe that could work? Because on the basis of what your additional context says, it does seem the distinction is relevant and needs to be made somehow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harakat

Peter Shortall
Local time: 10:46
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Harakat looks like what I'm after. Thanks so much - I'd never have found that on my own.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. The problem is my text defines "signes orthoépiques" as a subdivision of "signes diacritiques" so I'm afraid this won't do, much to my regret.

Asker: In the glossary of the text I'm translating, diacritics are defined as "Signs consisting of lines or, more commonly, dots, placed above or below letters, enabling the reader to distinguish between several consonant phonemes written using the same sign or ductus. In the earliest centuries of Islam, diacritics were not always used. They were developed to avoid ambiguities in reading the Koran." (my translation). In the same glossary, these "orthoepic signs" only apply to the sounds mentioned.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker (X): yes - this is the term a philologist would use - also "diacritical marks"
21 mins
  -> Thanks, Jim!
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