c’est ce qu’on se donne

English translation: we compose the data (in both senses of the word compose)

21:28 Nov 23, 2010
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Linguistics / general
French term or phrase: c’est ce qu’on se donne
I'm not sure i understand the last part "les données, c’est ce qu’on se donne."
Here's some context:
Ces étapes caractéristiques de la linguistique de corpus rappellent que dans les sciences de la culture, les données, c’est ce qu’on se donne.
My interpretation is that the data is our own experience or we create the data.
Any feedback is appreciated. TIA.
Rosa Paredes
Canada
Local time: 23:59
English translation:we compose the data (in both senses of the word compose)
Explanation:
Last idea tonight.
Selected response from:

Anne-Marie Mallié
United States
Local time: 02:59
Grading comment
Than you AM. I used this because it includes both the idea that we delimitate the data and also the 'se' which I interpret as our experiences become the data.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2...in working with raw data in the cultural sciences, we give ourselves our 'givens'
fionn
4 +1we choose our own "givens"
Melissa McMahon
4we are the data.
Anne-Marie Mallié
3 +1we compose the data (in both senses of the word compose)
Anne-Marie Mallié
2 +1in the cultural sciences, it is all about chosen data
MatthewLaSon
3the cultural sciences establish their own data/facts
ormiston
3the only "givens" are what we choose to give
Colin Morley (X)
3all (the results) will depend on the quality of data we put in
Louis Cyril P
3data comes from the latin word "dare" which means "given"
Layla de Chabot
Summary of reference entries provided
data is what we give ourselves ...?
fionn

Discussion entries: 23





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
we are the data.


Explanation:
There's a play on words in French that is difficult to achieve in English, but this is close.

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-11-23 23:16:14 GMT)
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I think your translation "we create the data,"
or the data is created by us
express it better.

Anne-Marie Mallié
United States
Local time: 02:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Anne-Marie. I understand it as "our experience is the data". Please comment.

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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
we choose our own "givens"


Explanation:
The data or "givens" in science are supposed to be precisely that: something you are given and have no choice in the matter about.

I think the author is stressing, rightly or wrongly, the role of the researcher in picking and choosing the data they use in the cultural sciences, as opposed to experimental sciences where data/results would be "imposed" on you.

(Simplistic opposition, but whatever!)

"The data is our own experience" is a very different statement I think.

I suggest "in the cultural sciences, we choose our own 'givens'"

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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-11-24 00:11:30 GMT)
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Hm, with the fuller context the meaning is: "we determine our givens", ie we select the parameters that determine how our data appears, but there would be lots of ways of putting this - Fionn's way keeps more of the wordplay for example.

Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 16:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Melissa. I'll give this some thought. It is quite different from what I understand.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker (X): This is the correct interpretation, but I think the wordplay can be avoided as distracting in EN
12 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jim
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
we compose the data (in both senses of the word compose)


Explanation:
Last idea tonight.

Anne-Marie Mallié
United States
Local time: 02:59
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Than you AM. I used this because it includes both the idea that we delimitate the data and also the 'se' which I interpret as our experiences become the data.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Nice!!! I like the ambivalence of your suggestion. Good night :)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ormiston: also agree with your comments above. The 'se' does imply an element of us compiling the facts rather than them being given to us on a plate.
12 hrs

neutral  Jim Tucker (X): The first part is right; the second part won't work, as subjectivity is just what corpus linguistics is trying to filter out. The issue is how to slice the data, which data to choose. But the corpus itself, not our own experience, is what counts.
3 days 8 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
all (the results) will depend on the quality of data we put in


Explanation:
Une suggestion, par rapport a comment je lis la phrase

Louis Cyril P
Local time: 10:59
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the only "givens" are what we choose to give


Explanation:
I understand all the references to data etc. but I feel that in the context of this passage "givens" underlines the fact that all we can get out is what we choose to put in. In computer speak they used to say "garbage in, garbage out".

Colin Morley (X)
France
Local time: 08:59
Native speaker of: English
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
data comes from the latin word "dare" which means "given"


Explanation:
It looks like the intention may be to remind of the original meaning of "data", and not just a play of words.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-11-24 15:16:27 GMT)
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Actually it would be more accurate to say "datum" from "given" in latin...


    Reference: http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/data#.C3.89tymologie
Layla de Chabot
France
Local time: 08:59
Native speaker of: French
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you. I am not focusing on the play of words. I do not think that that is the main purpose of the term.

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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
...dans les sciences de la culture, les données, c’est ce qu’on se donne
...in working with raw data in the cultural sciences, we give ourselves our 'givens'


Explanation:
I'm just going to stake my claim to an answer while the discussion continues, in anticipation of further context...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-11-23 23:52:57 GMT)
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And, of course, doing my best to maintain the play on words...

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Note added at 18 hrs (2010-11-24 15:48:53 GMT)
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...in working with data in the cultural sciences, we give ourselves our 'givens'

fionn
Germany
Local time: 08:59
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you. Although I agree with ormiston, your comments have been very helpful. The original is not an easy text.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Melissa McMahon: But I'd leave out "raw", because isn't the rawness what's in question?
31 mins
  -> Hmm yes good point! Thanks!

agree  Sandra Mouton
13 hrs
  -> thanks Sandra!

neutral  ormiston: reading this cold it sounds pretty odd. And anyway the origin of 'data' being more obscure than 'données' should not become the focus of the translation to my mind. My point is that the pun/parallel is more obscure in English
13 hrs
  -> well the original's pretty odd too, which is why it's been causing such a lengthy discussion ! ;) I like to try & keep the wordplay - here I feel the speaker might not have said this at all otherwise // Yeah... guess I have to agree with you there!
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in the cultural sciences, it is all about chosen data


Explanation:
Hello,

Just a guess...

I suppose they're making a contrast between the natural and cultural sciences.

I hope this helps.

MatthewLaSon
Local time: 02:59
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker (X): This is the right idea.
30 mins
  -> Thank you, Jim! I appreciate your comments in the Discussion Area. It helped me a lot.
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the cultural sciences establish their own data/facts


Explanation:
my offering. The emphasis does seem to be on the 'se'.
There even seems to be debate about 'cultural vs social sciences'

ormiston
Local time: 08:59
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, you're right (IMO), however, I feel the 'se' carries important information in this case.

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Reference comments


1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: data is what we give ourselves ...?

Reference information:
I think your interpretation is more or less right - that data is what appears to us in experience (not exactly 'what we create', unless we're going to be solipsistic about it...)

The first ref below uses the same phrase but doesn't appear to be from the same text (search the phrase within the page), perhaps the context is helpful.

The second ref gives the title of a paper on mathematical objects (also translated from FR), which might be used by analogy to provide "data is what we give ourselves".
Of course it's hard to maintain the repetition of données/se donne in the phrase, which appears to be the main point, so I'd try paraphrasing it with something like: "...remind us that in the cultural sciences, the raw data, the givens, are what we give ourselves." Though I know 'givens' doesn't mean exactly that...

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-11-23 22:50:19 GMT)
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De nada! ;) Not sure if I'm being too philosophical about it - a bit more context might help - but the author does seem to be making a fairly general reflection. A more elegant way of putting it in English, if you decide the wordplay with 'données/donner' can't be rescued, might be 'the data is something we furnish ourselves' (i.e. provide ourselves with).


    Reference: http://www.revue-texto.net/Archives/SdT/SdTv11n2.html
    Reference: http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/00/20/57/PDF/Salansk...
fionn
Germany
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Note to reference poster
Asker: WOW! Thank you so much for the refrences and your thoughts on this. Saludos :)


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Melissa McMahon: Agree, I'd post this as an answer
45 mins
  -> Thanks ! Might just do that...
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