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de l'amont à l'aval

English translation: At every step (of the way)

12:32 Apr 7, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Linguistics / a simple expression / turn of phrase
French term or phrase: de l'amont à l'aval
Contxt: De l’amont à l’aval de votre projet, l’office de tourisme et ses partenaires se tiennent à votre disposition pour vous aider à organiser le séjour de vos clients

...I'm having fun with Systran today - this text gives: Upstream with the downstream of your project...(there is a bright future for freelance translators)

Seriously: any suggestions for this expression would be most welcome and lavishly rewarded with thanks...

TVM
Connor
Local time: 15:16
English translation:At every step (of the way)
Explanation:
The Tourism Office and its Partners are on hand to help you at every step [of the way].....


cheers...let's not bog down in non-writerly iterations..

the incredible lightness of translation...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 21 mins (2005-04-07 15:53:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

en amont et an aval de votre projet= placement!! = at every step...so sweet so short
Selected response from:

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Grading comment
PERFECT thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5throughout
Valentin Alupoaie
5 +2At every step (of the way)
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
4 +2...from start to finish...
Tony M
3 +3from A to Z
French Foodie
5before, throughout and after
Mozydan
4 +1before, after and during your project
CMJ_Trans (X)
4 +1every aspect
TesCor -
5before and after
Mozydan
4 +1At all stages of your project
Alison Gaunt


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
de l'amont à l'aval
throughout


Explanation:
your project...

Valentin Alupoaie
Romania
Local time: 16:16
Native speaker of: Native in RomanianRomanian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer White: seems to be the neatest way of saying this
49 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  Sandra C.: nice and concise
4 hrs
  -> Thanks

agree  Patrice
5 hrs
  -> Thanks

agree  Sarah Walls
10 hrs
  -> Thanks

agree  Clare Macnamara
18 hrs
  -> Thanks
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
de l'amont à l'aval
every aspect


Explanation:
For every aspect of your project,

TesCor -
Canada
Local time: 09:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Again, a bit TOO broad, I fear?
22 mins

agree  writeaway: definitely an option but misses the "from-to" idea in the French
30 mins
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
de l'amont à l'aval
before and after


Explanation:
Amont is prior to and aval after

Mozydan
Local time: 09:16
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Yes, but as Laurel has pointed out, it is "FROM before TO after", which by its nature also implies 'in between' :-); otherwise they'd have said "en amont ET en aval"
1 hr
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
de l'amont à l'aval
from A to Z


Explanation:
another option

... to organize your customers' holiday from A to Z...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2005-04-07 13:25:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

hmmm, how about something like \"from the pre-project planning to the finishing touches\"

French Foodie
Local time: 15:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  NancyLynn
3 mins

agree  writeaway
4 mins

agree  Tony M: Nice, but could be a bit TOO broad -- surely this is a merely 'temporal' use?
9 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
before, after and during your project


Explanation:
an idea

= at all stages

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 15:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: auch
19 mins
  -> as in "ouch"??
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
de l'amont à l'aval
At all stages of your project


Explanation:
This is a horrible phrase to translate - especially where just one half of it is present. With both bits present, I'd deal with it as above...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 27 mins (2005-04-07 13:59:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On second thoughts, maybe \"planning\" instead of \"project\"..

Alison Gaunt
Local time: 14:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: already suggested by CMJ
2 mins

neutral  Tony M: not sure about the idea of 'planning' --- I think for once they DO mean the WHOLE project here...
1 hr

agree  mportal: this is much more elegant than 'before, during and after' (which, to me sounds like an instruction of some kind), but I'm not sure that this includes 'after'. (Same applies to 'throughout'.)
5 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
de l'amont à l'aval
before, throughout and after


Explanation:
I am sorry to post a second answer, but I can't find room for my little 2 cents.

No question about it, the notion I tried to imply from the beginning is a continuity but with a start before the projet that continues when the project is going and continues even after the project is finished. The general meaning of amont and aval is a location (time or space) with regards to a point in time or space. Thus I am now convinced that if you use "Before, throughout and after your project" you capture the intent. BTW, the project itself is not defined, only the help grom an external organism that seems to have interest in the succes of it.

For what it is worth, those are my 2 cents... And I sure don't want to leave the impression I want to impose my vues. Debating is such fun...



Mozydan
Local time: 09:16
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  CMJ_Trans (X): did you read what I suggested and is this not the same thing? I doubt if we would say "throughout" here in English however, with no disrespect - PS: you CAN use throughout but on its own and minus the "before" and "after". I'm against the combination
7 mins
  -> This is the second time I am told I should not use the word "Throughout" in English. I sure would like to have my knowledge increased by the reasons of such !!!

neutral  Tony M: Sorry, but I'm with CMJ on this one --- please see the note I'm about to add to my own answer for my reasoning
32 mins
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
de l'amont à l'aval
At every step (of the way)


Explanation:
The Tourism Office and its Partners are on hand to help you at every step [of the way].....


cheers...let's not bog down in non-writerly iterations..

the incredible lightness of translation...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 21 mins (2005-04-07 15:53:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

en amont et an aval de votre projet= placement!! = at every step...so sweet so short

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
PERFECT thanks

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, yes, YES! Though I'd almost be inclined to trim off that 'at' too... "help you every step of the way" Thanks, Jane :-)
11 mins
  -> yes...away away with the at

agree  Dylan Edwards: at/through or maybe no preposition - definitely "every step"
1 hr
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
de l'amont à l'aval
...from start to finish...


Explanation:
Would need a bit of tweaking to work it in, but I think the sense and register is possibly appropriate...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2005-04-07 12:58:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mozydan has highlighted an interesting point there, about the literal meaning of amont/aval; but since I think it is highly unlikely that the Tourist Office (and not forgetting partners...!) is going to abandon these poor tour organizers just when they need them most, i.e. DURING the project, I think it is safe to say that they do indeed mean \'before, after and during...\' --- I think it is just a slightly differnet way the French have of looking at what exactly comprises a \'projet\', and also, at what point it starts / finishes.

I don\'t imagine they mean \"we\'ll help you do the washing-up before you actually sit down and start thinking about your holiday plans\" ;-))) --- it\'s more a case of \"we\'ll help you as soon as you start thinking about your holiday project...\"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2005-04-07 13:19:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Whilst I take W/A\'s point, I can\'t help feeling that amont / aval suggests a linear, temporal aspect that is missing in the \'A-Z\' idea; whilst at the same time, the latter implies a degree of comprehensiveness that may not be at all what was intended; I don\'t imagine the T.O. et al can give help with EVERY aspect of the tour projects, though I do imagine they are happy to be available throughout the whole duration of the project to do whatever is within their power...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 29 mins (2005-04-07 16:01:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In reply to Mozydan\'s comment about throughout:

In part, it\'s just one of those \'feeling\' things --- \'throughout\' is just a rather stuffy word best reserved for more formal or pompous uses than toruism marketing.

But more importantly, in your specific suggestion, it sounds horribly like a pleonasm; before, during and after is OK, but basically means about the same as throughout on its own...

See if this definition (one of several) from OED helps make this clearer:

\"Through or during the whole time, extent, etc., of; from beginning to end of.\"

Cheers! :-)

Tony M
France
Local time: 15:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mozydan: If the context specify that the support is within the project, then I agree with you. But the french expression would then not be too appropriate, no?//Actually, to give the Frenchs benefit of the doubt, I would use "before, throughout and after".
8 mins
  -> Thanks! I agree with your point, though I think this is probably the 'true' meaning behind it --- the French view it slightly differently, perhaps...?

neutral  writeaway: ok for an engineering project but not best choice for a stay-A to Z expresses notion of every aspect which is more the idea here imho
29 mins
  -> Thanks, W/A! Please see my soon-to-be-added note...

agree  Laurel Porter (X): I don't see that it would be all that difficult to work it in , Dusty - and IMHO, this is the truest to the original French while still being good English. (BTW, mozydan, the "throughout" is implicit in "from start to finish".)
1 hr
  -> Thanks! You're right about working it in, I was just trying to make it clear that it wasn't a 'drop-in' suugestion. And yes de... à... certainly does suggest the 'in between' as well, doesn't it?

neutral  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): it's OK..but I would put it afterwards..help you at every step..it's simple, in the flow and short
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jane! Yes, I agree about moving it to the end; and 'at every step' IS better :-)
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