zénith

14:33 Jul 24, 2018
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Real Estate
French term or phrase: zénith
servitude de survol des lignes EDF jusqu'au zénith

It appears to mean up until the sky - indefinitely?

I'm looking for the legal translation of the term
Jane RM
France
Local time: 10:04


Summary of answers provided
4 +6zenith
philgoddard
3 +6including directly overhead
Tony M
3 +1sky
mrrafe


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
zenith


Explanation:
'The zenith is an imaginary point directly "above" a particular location, on the imaginary celestial sphere.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith

In practice, since this point doesn't actually exist, it means flying directly above the power lines as high as it's possible for an aircraft to fly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2018-07-24 14:49:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'What we have here, of course, is a simple application of the ancient ad coelum
rule, which says that within the bounds of one’s property one owns from the nadir to the zenith, which permits all uses that take nothing belonging free and clear to others.'
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/articles/constit...
The nadir is the opposite of the zenith.


philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 84

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Right term, but wrong explanation! This is about power lines flying above your property, nothing to do with aircraft :-)
38 mins
  -> Yes, you're quite right. I misunderstood "survol".

agree  writeaway: hard to get a legal translation for a non-legalese term
38 mins
  -> Yes, I guess this is geography.

agree  Michele Fauble
4 hrs

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: If you take "jusqu'au" and use "from the nadir to the zenith", then I see no pb with this suggestion at all.
6 hrs

agree  GILOU
15 hrs

agree  Elisabeth Gootjes
18 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer

24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sky


Explanation:
Sometimes this is described as an easement, or right of way, from ground to sky, i.e., upward forever. See Para. B: http://www.rockwoodelectric.com/Engineering/PDFs/Electric Ea...
It's not strictly a legal term but the meaning is understood.



mrrafe
United States
Local time: 04:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: it's no more vague than zenith
27 mins
  -> Thank you

disagree  Tony M: Would be too vague for use in this legal context. / Be that as it may, your suggested term clearly would not work when used in this legal context. 'Zenith' is technically accurate, though still not legalese. 'Sky' is WAY too vague...
27 mins
  -> OK but utility law is my specialty and I would expect to see something more like the doc at the "Rockwood" link supra. That's a binding legal agreement. Don't recall ever seeing zenith in this context in US, except referring to solar position - inapt here

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "Sky" is fine, of course. For the "jusqu'au", then "from ground to ..." is good.
6 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +6
jusqu'au zénith
including directly overhead


Explanation:
I.e. it means "not just passing over the far corner of your land"

Low confidence level simply because I am not a legal specialist!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2018-07-25 05:04:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It's important to understand that 'zénith' here has a specific meaning — it doesn't just measn 'cables running across the sky over your property'! It very specifically means 'running directly right above your head'.
Although we think of the sun as being at its zenith when it is at its highest point, this also means 'when it is directly overhead'.

Tony M
France
Local time: 10:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 330

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: Interesting to note that the asker states that she IS a legal specialist! The law on easements as taught both at law degree and LPC level surely includes the equivalent English terms whereby an easement over land extends both vertically downwards & upward
23 mins
  -> Thanks, C!

agree  Ben Gaia
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ben!

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: This work too, of course. The final choice would probably depend on other choices made in the rest of the document, modern legal English tending to move towards plainer choices where possible, altho' still bung full of some excellent olde worlde terme.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Nikki! It is very important that it specifies 'right over your head', which is what this technical term means.

agree  writeaway: you can raise your confidence level. This isn't actually legalese
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, W/A! Indeed, not — though I did think there might be a more formal way of expressing it.

agree  B D Finch
23 hrs
  -> Thanks, B!

agree  Yvonne Gallagher
2 days 17 hrs
  -> Thanks, Yvonne!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search