de tuer le père (in context)

English translation: New Generation: make their own mark

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:de tuer le père (in context)
English translation:New Generation: make their own mark
Entered by: Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X)

00:21 Apr 3, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Textiles / Clothing / Fashion / Trade fair for fashion (about jeans)
French term or phrase: de tuer le père (in context)
Is this some kind of reference to Freud? How can I best phrase it as kill the father sounds awful?

TIA.



« Il y a eu une première période ou tout le monde voulait le même, poursuit Pierre Morisset, la coupe, la toile, la couleur, il ne devait exister qu’un seul modèle de jeans pour tout le monde. Puis, à trop le voir, ce pantalon s’est banalisé et est même devenu ennuyeux. De plus, il ne faisait pas envie aux jeunes générations. Quand on débute dans la vie et que l’on est tenaillé à prendre son indépendance, on rêve de tout, sauf d’adopter des vêtements et des codes faisant référence à nos parents ».
Ainsi, adolescents et jeunes s’amourachent pour l’antithèse du pantalon moulant à l’aube des années 90. Naturellement, ils ont besoin « de tuer le père » pour affirmer leur identité. Ils veulent être totalement libres de leurs mouvements et aspirent à d’autres horizons. Ainsi, débute le streetwear : style urbain cousu de références aux univers de la glisse, de la musique techno et de la rue.
Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X)
France
Local time: 02:58
"make their own mark" "create their own style"
Explanation:
These are less colorful than the French original, but do make the same
point.
Selected response from:

emiledgar
Belgium
Local time: 02:58
Grading comment
Thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2"make their own mark" "create their own style"
emiledgar
3 +3to kill the father
Michel A.
4break the mold
TesCor -
3"kick out the past"
cchat
2 -2cut the umbilical cord
Gabo Pena


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -2
cut the umbilical cord


Explanation:
be independent, make their own mark, show their oe=wn style. I think that's it, hold on i'll get comfirmation from France right now...

Gabo Pena
Local time: 17:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  cchat: I liked this, but it refers more to mothers, and suggests that they have difficulty doing it.
1 hr

disagree  df49f (X): s'agit du père pas de la mère - stock phrase in Freudian lit.
10 hrs

disagree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): umbilical chords are for mothers...
16 hrs
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
de tuer le père (in context)
"make their own mark" "create their own style"


Explanation:
These are less colorful than the French original, but do make the same
point.

emiledgar
Belgium
Local time: 02:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 54
Grading comment
Thank you

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nathalie Bendavid
53 mins

agree  RHELLER: less dramatic :-)
3 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
de tuer le père (in context)
"kick out the past"


Explanation:
sufficiently violent, yet not murderous.
It's the Oedipus complex, and is part of Freud's theories, I think.

cchat
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dylan Edwards: kick out, chuck out - the Oedipal thing (typical of the age of four, killing father/marrying mother) shouldn't be over-emphasised here.
8 hrs
  -> Yes, I agree about the emphasis. Thanks

disagree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): the reference is to Freud and Lacan..and it's in quotes..not putting it in and changing it like this is just plain wrong, IMO...and killing the father in Freud and Lacan is not literal...it's much more complicated than that..
14 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
de tuer le père (in context)
break the mold


Explanation:
is what comes to mind.

TesCor -
Canada
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  cchat: Not bad at all, but if you break the mould, you stop the cycle. I think the image is getting rid of the past, but keeping change for the future.
10 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
de tuer le père (in context)
to kill the father


Explanation:
This expression is widely used in English with regards to Freud's Theories, then why not stick to the original metaphor?

Definition: Oedipus Complex
... For Freud, the childhood desire to sleep with the mother and to kill the father.
Freud describes the source of this complex in his Introductory Lectures ...
www.sla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/ theory/psychoanalysis/definitions/oedipus.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages

BrothersJudd.com - Review of Paul Vitz's Faith of the Fatherless ...
... The central concept in Freud's work, aside from the unconscious, ... The son
does not really kill the father, of course, but patricide is assumed to be ...
www.brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/ fuseaction/reviews.detail/book_id/1324/ - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

Chronicles of Love & Resentment CCXXXVI
... thrust forward by the scapegoat mechanism to put an end to this contention;
in Freud, the sons kill the father (2) in order to possess the women (1). ...
www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/views/vw236.htm - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

FREUD.LEC
... by talking about what you already know about Sigmund Freud and his ideas. ...
This is the Oedipus Complex in boys--the desire to kill the father so that ...
www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/1997freud.html - 28k - Cached - Similar pages

The Psychology of Atheism
... William James and Sigmund Freud, for example, were both personally and ...
The son does not really kill the father, of course, but patricide is assumed ...
www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth12.html - 48k - Cached - Similar pages

The Three Little Pigs and Bruno Bettelheim. How not to make an ...
... Freud has shown that the number three is the symbol of the male genital, ...
where they kill the Father - substitute, and keep the woman for themselves ...
www.geocities.com/psychohistory2001/bettelheim.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

Template - Always Save as a Different File Name
... During the 20th Century, Freud’s notion of the Oedipus Complex has become
common knowledge. ... We’ll begin with what it means to kill the father. ...
www.cliftonunitarian.com/ toddstalks/reconsideringoedipus.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Meridian Magazine : : Print
... The most famous statement of this position comes from Sigmund Freud, ...
by the Oedipal desire to kill the father (God) and replace him with oneself. ...
www.meridianmagazine.com/ ideas/031117fatherlessprint.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

Freud-Jung conflict recalled in 'Sabina' - (United Press ...
The father-son relationship between Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung that ended in
... up to kill the father," asking scornfully, "Is that the story of mankind? ...
www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/ 20050216-073528-6448r.htm - 51k - 1 Apr 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Intense Atheism
... As is generally known, Freud's criticism of belief in God is that such a belief is
... represented by the boy's desire to overthrow or kill the father. ...
www.catholiceducation.org/ articles/civilization/cc0170.html - 39k - Cached - Similar pages

Michel A.
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Antonella Amato: This is a very strong cultural reference and I think it'd be a good idea to keep it.
1 hr
  -> Cheers Antonella

agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): That's right and only the French would put that in a fashion article..and it is true too...why does everybody hate Freud? Because they don't understand him or Lacan..,.boy, what they are missing...:)
9 hrs
  -> Cheers Jane :-) Lacan-t-à moi je suis da corps.....

neutral  emiledgar: Yes, this is widely used in English with regards to Freud's theories, but would not it be somewhat jarring in English in a fashion context, even if it works in French? reud's
11 hrs
  -> Do you mean English speakers are totally unaware of psychoanalytical jargon? I personally don't think so; especially in NY & California

agree  Charlie Bavington (X): As a quote, agree the Eng equiv ought to be retained. However, as this is a somewhat left-field reference in a jeans context, I do wonder whether it might be appropriate to put s'thing in () after e.g. "(in the Freudian sense)". Not sure.....
1 day 2 hrs
  -> Good suggestion, Charlie
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