goût caucasien et carte verte

English translation: socio-racial comment?

19:18 Apr 25, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Wine / Oenology / Viticulture / champagne
French term or phrase: goût caucasien et carte verte
Les riches clients qui le hantent constituent l'élite des buveurs de champagne. Ils le prennent au bar entre garçons, ou ils l'offrent à table aux grandes dames qui les accompagnent aussi bien qu'aux demi-mondaines en renom. Chez Maxim's, on boit du brut lorsque l'on est amateur de nouveauté, mais plus volontiers, écrit Armand Lanoux, "le champagne sucré, goût caucasien et carte verte".
Mark Nathan
France
Local time: 03:15
English translation:socio-racial comment?
Explanation:
I see two (different) reasons why "carte verte" might refer to social and racial distinctions.

First of all though, a question: Armand Lanoux, who lived from 1913 to 1983 was, if writing about the turn of the century, speaking from a later point of view, say 1933 at the earliest if he was 20 at the time, or 1953 if he was 40.

Now, in 1953 the "carte verte" for motor vehicle insurance was introduced, and to this day is intended primarily for the western European area (Lithuania has only recently been admitted). In conjunction with "Caucasian" this would make your text a racial distinction.

Then there's the golfers "Green Card" (a pun on the green where one putts, presumably) which is a "discount golf card" and known in French as "carte verte". I have no idea when it was first created in France. But if Lanoux is referring to that, we have the combination of racial "Caucasian" and social "golf" (wealth).

Good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 4 mins (2005-04-25 21:22:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops! Lost my thread with my \"question\" which was to have been \"Do you know if he was using \"turn of the century\" or contemporary (his own time) language and images ?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 52 mins (2005-04-25 22:10:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By 1961 I should think the automobile \"carte verte\" would be known to the majority of champagne drinkers (or readers of Lanoux), and golf would have been on the rise in France, though seen as highly elitist I imagine.

A toi de choisir! (and good luck, again).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 7 mins (2005-04-25 22:25:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Then again:

CHAMPAGNE CHRISTIAN SENEZ CARTE VERTE ** Coup de coeur. Ce Carte Verte est une cuvée mi-noir mi-blanche qiu n\'a pas fait de fermantation malolactique. Elle est fort complimentée pour des aromes intenses et complexes ou l\'on décèle de la reglisse, des fruits confits et exotiques, de la vanille. Atypique pour un brut sabs année, conclut un dégustateur. Il faut l\'avoir dans sa cave, ajoute un autre membre du jury.Tout votent pour le coup de coeur.Uit : Le guide Hachette des Vins 2000

The place is Champagne, and the excitement is over the increase in estate-grown
and -bottled wines. ... Gaston Chiquet ‘Carte Verte’ Brut NV $26.99 ...
www.wineshopny.com/newsletter2.htm
[But this particluar Carte Verte champagne is brut …]

Bois :
Bon nombre de vins séjournent en fût de chêne après leur fermentation. Ceci contribue à les enrichir en arômes. Ces vins nécessiteront en principe plus de temps pour s’épanouir que leurs collègues uniquement élevés en cuve. Il est très intéressant de constater que la provenance du chêne avec lequel les fûts sont fabriqués modifie grandement les arômes du vin. En effet, un vin élevé dans du chêne Caucasien change totalement s’il vieillit dans du chêne français

They are then vinified traditionally and spend a year in Caucasian oak barriques
and a further six months in bottle. ...
www.eurowines.co.uk/wines/20261800.html

The comparison involves the following barrels: Haute Futaie French oak (medium toast), Caucasian oak (medium toast), European blend (medium toast and medium toast plus), American oak and “U-stave” American oak
[hostingprod.com/@seguinmoreaunapa.com/TechPaper2003.pdf]

But does/did champagne ever see the inside of an oak barrel?
Selected response from:

Bourth (X)
Local time: 03:15
Grading comment
thanks to Helen as well
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2please read further
HelenG
2 +1socio-racial comment?
Bourth (X)
3nouveaux-riches
Patrice


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
goût caucasien et carte verte
nouveaux-riches


Explanation:
They've got their green cards, are developing American tastes...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2005-04-25 19:50:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

..now in the land where you can supposedly make your million....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 0 min (2005-04-25 21:18:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Helen and I agree on the sweet tastes thing (which is how I had been thinking of American tastes)...now that I know the era, my green card idea really needs to be ignored!

Patrice
United States
Local time: 18:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
goût caucasien et carte verte
socio-racial comment?


Explanation:
I see two (different) reasons why "carte verte" might refer to social and racial distinctions.

First of all though, a question: Armand Lanoux, who lived from 1913 to 1983 was, if writing about the turn of the century, speaking from a later point of view, say 1933 at the earliest if he was 20 at the time, or 1953 if he was 40.

Now, in 1953 the "carte verte" for motor vehicle insurance was introduced, and to this day is intended primarily for the western European area (Lithuania has only recently been admitted). In conjunction with "Caucasian" this would make your text a racial distinction.

Then there's the golfers "Green Card" (a pun on the green where one putts, presumably) which is a "discount golf card" and known in French as "carte verte". I have no idea when it was first created in France. But if Lanoux is referring to that, we have the combination of racial "Caucasian" and social "golf" (wealth).

Good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 4 mins (2005-04-25 21:22:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops! Lost my thread with my \"question\" which was to have been \"Do you know if he was using \"turn of the century\" or contemporary (his own time) language and images ?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 52 mins (2005-04-25 22:10:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By 1961 I should think the automobile \"carte verte\" would be known to the majority of champagne drinkers (or readers of Lanoux), and golf would have been on the rise in France, though seen as highly elitist I imagine.

A toi de choisir! (and good luck, again).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 7 mins (2005-04-25 22:25:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Then again:

CHAMPAGNE CHRISTIAN SENEZ CARTE VERTE ** Coup de coeur. Ce Carte Verte est une cuvée mi-noir mi-blanche qiu n\'a pas fait de fermantation malolactique. Elle est fort complimentée pour des aromes intenses et complexes ou l\'on décèle de la reglisse, des fruits confits et exotiques, de la vanille. Atypique pour un brut sabs année, conclut un dégustateur. Il faut l\'avoir dans sa cave, ajoute un autre membre du jury.Tout votent pour le coup de coeur.Uit : Le guide Hachette des Vins 2000

The place is Champagne, and the excitement is over the increase in estate-grown
and -bottled wines. ... Gaston Chiquet ‘Carte Verte’ Brut NV $26.99 ...
www.wineshopny.com/newsletter2.htm
[But this particluar Carte Verte champagne is brut …]

Bois :
Bon nombre de vins séjournent en fût de chêne après leur fermentation. Ceci contribue à les enrichir en arômes. Ces vins nécessiteront en principe plus de temps pour s’épanouir que leurs collègues uniquement élevés en cuve. Il est très intéressant de constater que la provenance du chêne avec lequel les fûts sont fabriqués modifie grandement les arômes du vin. En effet, un vin élevé dans du chêne Caucasien change totalement s’il vieillit dans du chêne français

They are then vinified traditionally and spend a year in Caucasian oak barriques
and a further six months in bottle. ...
www.eurowines.co.uk/wines/20261800.html

The comparison involves the following barrels: Haute Futaie French oak (medium toast), Caucasian oak (medium toast), European blend (medium toast and medium toast plus), American oak and “U-stave” American oak
[hostingprod.com/@seguinmoreaunapa.com/TechPaper2003.pdf]

But does/did champagne ever see the inside of an oak barrel?

Bourth (X)
Local time: 03:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 156
Grading comment
thanks to Helen as well

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X): what can I say after all that?
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

47 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
goût caucasien et carte verte
please read further


Explanation:
Gout caucasien = very sweet - I used to live in the Caucasus. There is no other particular quality of Caucasian champagne that this could refer to. It is also very cheap compared to real champagne.
I am not so sure with 'carte verte' but at a guess, I think it refers to the touring club 'carte verte' and therefore is trying to infer that the champagne is not particularly refined, more for campers, etc....this second part is just a guess.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs 41 mins (2005-04-26 08:59:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mark, I was intrigued by this question, and have done some more searching...and I have come to the opinion that \'carte verte\' means non-vintage or young. I have found several links for you to look at where \'carte\' is obviously used as \'vintage\':

http://www.thewinedoctor.com/loire/baumard.shtml
www.champagne-remy.fr

I hope this helps.




HelenG
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:15
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X)
2 mins
  -> Thank you!

agree  Mario Marcolin
11 hrs
  -> Thank you!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search