"renonçant"

Greek translation: ασκητής/αρνητής των εγκοσμίων

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:"renonçant"
Greek translation:ασκητής/αρνητής των εγκοσμίων
Entered by: d_vachliot (X)

09:03 Sep 26, 2007
French to Greek translations [PRO]
Religion / hindouisme
French term or phrase: "renonçant"
"on désigne par là les trois états par lesquels passe théoriquement l'Indien de haute caste:étudiant brahmanique, maitre de maison, anachorète, enfin "renonçant""....
CHRISTINE
Local time: 15:17
ασκητής
Explanation:
Εδώ τα περιγράφει αναλυτικά τα στάδια των brahmin.
http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm

The first is the brahmacarya, or the stage of the student (brahmacârin). For boys, the student is supposed to go live with a teacher (guru), who is a Brahmin, to learn about Sanskrit, the Vedas, rituals, etc. The dharma of a student includes being obedient, respectful, celibate, and non-violent. "The teacher is God." For girls, the stage of studenthood coincides with that of the householder, and the husband stands in the place of the teacher. Since the boys are supposed to be celibate while students, Gandhi used the term brahmacâri to mean the celibate practitioner that he thought made the best Satyagrahi, the best non-violent activist.

The second stage is the gârhastya, or the stage of the householder, which is taken far more seriously in Hinduism than in Jainism or Buddhism and is usually regarded as mandatory, like studenthood, although debate continued over the centuries whether or not this stage could be skipped in favor of a later one. This is the stage where the principal dharma of the person is performed, whether as priest, warrior, etc., or for women mainly as wife and mother. Arjuna's duty to fight the battle in the Bhagavad Gita comes from his status as a householder. Besides specific duties, there are general duties that pay off the "three debts": (1) a debt to the ancestors that is discharged by marrying and having children; (2) a debt to the gods that is discharged by the household rituals and sacrifices; and (3) a debt to the teacher that is discharged by appropriately teaching one's wife, children, and, for Brahmins, other students. The three debts are sometimes associated with the three Gods of the Trimûrti -- the ancestor debt with Brahmâ, the gods debt with Vis.n.u, and the teacher debt with Shiva.

The third stage is the vânaprastya, or the stage of the forest dweller. This may be entered into optionally if (ideally) one's hair has become gray, one's skin wrinkled, and grandchildren exist to carry on the family. Husbands and wives may leave their affairs and possessions with their children and retire together to the forest as hermits. This does not involve the complete renunciation of the world, for husbands and wives can still have sex (once a month), and a sacred fire still should be kept and minimal rituals performed. This stage is thus not entirely free of dharma. The Forest Treatises were supposed to have been written by or for forest dwellers, who have mostly renounced the world and have begun to consider liberation. I am not aware that forest dwelling is still practiced in the traditional way. The modern alternatives seem to consist of the more stark opposition between householding and becoming a wandering ascetic. Nevertheless, forest dwelling is an institution that doesn't really develop as such in Jainism and Buddhism. The idea that husbands and wives would engage in ascetic practices together, without celibacy, would appear extraordinary. In those terms, it is an unfortunate loss if the institution does not continue in modern Hinduism.

The fourth stage is the sannyâsa, or the stage of the wandering ascetic, the sannyâsin (or sâdhu). If a man desires, he may continue on to this stage, but his wife will need to return home; traditionally she cannot stay alone as a forest dweller or wander the highways as an ascetic. The sannyâsin has renounced the world completely, is regarded as dead by his family (the funeral is held), and is finally beyond all dharma and caste. When a sannyâsin enters a Hindu temple, he is not a worshiper but one of the objects of worship. Not even the gods are sannyâsins (they are householders), and so this is where in Hinduism, as in Jainism and Buddhism, it is possible for human beings to be spiritually superior to the gods. It has long been a matter of dispute in Hinduism whether one need really fulfill the requirements of the Laws of Manu (gray hair, etc.) to renounce the world. The Mahâbhârata says that Brahmins may go directly to Renunciation, but it also says that the three debts must be paid -- and the debt to the ancestors could only be paid with husbands and wives living together either as householders or, if renunciates, as forest dwellers (indeed, the Pân.d.avas are all born in that way). There are definitely no such requirements in Jainism or Buddhism. The Buddha left his family right after his wife had a baby, which would put him in the middle of his dharma as a householder. Buddhism and Jainism thus developed monastic institutions, with monks and nuns, but these did not really develop as such in Hinduism: While wandering ascetics are rather like mendicant monks, we lack monasteries and nuns, and the ascetics are, traditionally, supposed to have already lived something like a normal, lay life.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2007-09-26 09:35:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Και στα Ελληνικά, μια και μιλάμε για σαντού:

Στον Ινδουισμό η λέξη σαντού είναι ο συνήθης όρος για έναν *ασκητή* ή [ΟΧΙ ΓΙΟΓΚΙ] γιόγκι που έχει παραιτηθεί από την επιδίωξη των τριών πρώτων ινδουιστικών στόχων ζωής, το κάμα (απόλαυση), το άρθα (πλούτη και ισχύ) ακόμα και το ντάρμα (καθήκον). Ο σνατού είναι απλοκλειστικά αφοσιωμένος στην επίτευξη της μόκσα (απελευθέρωσης) μέσω διαλογισμού και στοχασμού του Θεού...."
http://histologion-gr.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_09.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-09-26 10:18:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Καταλαβαίνω. Αρχικά σκεφτόμουν αναχωρητής, αλλά κι αυτό το λέει ήδη. Ο Θησαυρός προτείνει και ερημίτης ή ησυχαστής.

Σύμφωνα με το λεξικό¨renonçant
nom masculin
Dans l'hindouisme, personne, appelée sannyasin ou sadhu, qui s'est libérée de toutes les obligations matérielles, sociales et rituelles de l'homme dans le monde pour mener une vie d'ascète entièrement vouée à la recherche du salut individuel.

Οπότε ουσιαστικά είναι ασκητής. Τι να σου πω. Ό,τι νομίζεις εσύ. Αν δεν μπορείς να πεις δύο φορές την ίδια λέξη, ίσως περιφραστικά "απαρνητής των εγκοσμίων" ή κάτι παρόμοιο.
Selected response from:

d_vachliot (X)
Local time: 15:17
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1ασκητής
d_vachliot (X)


  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ασκητής


Explanation:
Εδώ τα περιγράφει αναλυτικά τα στάδια των brahmin.
http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm

The first is the brahmacarya, or the stage of the student (brahmacârin). For boys, the student is supposed to go live with a teacher (guru), who is a Brahmin, to learn about Sanskrit, the Vedas, rituals, etc. The dharma of a student includes being obedient, respectful, celibate, and non-violent. "The teacher is God." For girls, the stage of studenthood coincides with that of the householder, and the husband stands in the place of the teacher. Since the boys are supposed to be celibate while students, Gandhi used the term brahmacâri to mean the celibate practitioner that he thought made the best Satyagrahi, the best non-violent activist.

The second stage is the gârhastya, or the stage of the householder, which is taken far more seriously in Hinduism than in Jainism or Buddhism and is usually regarded as mandatory, like studenthood, although debate continued over the centuries whether or not this stage could be skipped in favor of a later one. This is the stage where the principal dharma of the person is performed, whether as priest, warrior, etc., or for women mainly as wife and mother. Arjuna's duty to fight the battle in the Bhagavad Gita comes from his status as a householder. Besides specific duties, there are general duties that pay off the "three debts": (1) a debt to the ancestors that is discharged by marrying and having children; (2) a debt to the gods that is discharged by the household rituals and sacrifices; and (3) a debt to the teacher that is discharged by appropriately teaching one's wife, children, and, for Brahmins, other students. The three debts are sometimes associated with the three Gods of the Trimûrti -- the ancestor debt with Brahmâ, the gods debt with Vis.n.u, and the teacher debt with Shiva.

The third stage is the vânaprastya, or the stage of the forest dweller. This may be entered into optionally if (ideally) one's hair has become gray, one's skin wrinkled, and grandchildren exist to carry on the family. Husbands and wives may leave their affairs and possessions with their children and retire together to the forest as hermits. This does not involve the complete renunciation of the world, for husbands and wives can still have sex (once a month), and a sacred fire still should be kept and minimal rituals performed. This stage is thus not entirely free of dharma. The Forest Treatises were supposed to have been written by or for forest dwellers, who have mostly renounced the world and have begun to consider liberation. I am not aware that forest dwelling is still practiced in the traditional way. The modern alternatives seem to consist of the more stark opposition between householding and becoming a wandering ascetic. Nevertheless, forest dwelling is an institution that doesn't really develop as such in Jainism and Buddhism. The idea that husbands and wives would engage in ascetic practices together, without celibacy, would appear extraordinary. In those terms, it is an unfortunate loss if the institution does not continue in modern Hinduism.

The fourth stage is the sannyâsa, or the stage of the wandering ascetic, the sannyâsin (or sâdhu). If a man desires, he may continue on to this stage, but his wife will need to return home; traditionally she cannot stay alone as a forest dweller or wander the highways as an ascetic. The sannyâsin has renounced the world completely, is regarded as dead by his family (the funeral is held), and is finally beyond all dharma and caste. When a sannyâsin enters a Hindu temple, he is not a worshiper but one of the objects of worship. Not even the gods are sannyâsins (they are householders), and so this is where in Hinduism, as in Jainism and Buddhism, it is possible for human beings to be spiritually superior to the gods. It has long been a matter of dispute in Hinduism whether one need really fulfill the requirements of the Laws of Manu (gray hair, etc.) to renounce the world. The Mahâbhârata says that Brahmins may go directly to Renunciation, but it also says that the three debts must be paid -- and the debt to the ancestors could only be paid with husbands and wives living together either as householders or, if renunciates, as forest dwellers (indeed, the Pân.d.avas are all born in that way). There are definitely no such requirements in Jainism or Buddhism. The Buddha left his family right after his wife had a baby, which would put him in the middle of his dharma as a householder. Buddhism and Jainism thus developed monastic institutions, with monks and nuns, but these did not really develop as such in Hinduism: While wandering ascetics are rather like mendicant monks, we lack monasteries and nuns, and the ascetics are, traditionally, supposed to have already lived something like a normal, lay life.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2007-09-26 09:35:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Και στα Ελληνικά, μια και μιλάμε για σαντού:

Στον Ινδουισμό η λέξη σαντού είναι ο συνήθης όρος για έναν *ασκητή* ή [ΟΧΙ ΓΙΟΓΚΙ] γιόγκι που έχει παραιτηθεί από την επιδίωξη των τριών πρώτων ινδουιστικών στόχων ζωής, το κάμα (απόλαυση), το άρθα (πλούτη και ισχύ) ακόμα και το ντάρμα (καθήκον). Ο σνατού είναι απλοκλειστικά αφοσιωμένος στην επίτευξη της μόκσα (απελευθέρωσης) μέσω διαλογισμού και στοχασμού του Θεού...."
http://histologion-gr.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_09.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-09-26 10:18:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Καταλαβαίνω. Αρχικά σκεφτόμουν αναχωρητής, αλλά κι αυτό το λέει ήδη. Ο Θησαυρός προτείνει και ερημίτης ή ησυχαστής.

Σύμφωνα με το λεξικό¨renonçant
nom masculin
Dans l'hindouisme, personne, appelée sannyasin ou sadhu, qui s'est libérée de toutes les obligations matérielles, sociales et rituelles de l'homme dans le monde pour mener une vie d'ascète entièrement vouée à la recherche du salut individuel.

Οπότε ουσιαστικά είναι ασκητής. Τι να σου πω. Ό,τι νομίζεις εσύ. Αν δεν μπορείς να πεις δύο φορές την ίδια λέξη, ίσως περιφραστικά "απαρνητής των εγκοσμίων" ή κάτι παρόμοιο.

d_vachliot (X)
Local time: 15:17
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
PRO pts in category: 88
Notes to answerer
Asker: yparxei idi sto keimeno i lexi "ascète".gi auto psaxno mia alli apodosi poy na deixnei tin aparnisi, tin egatalipsi ton egosmiwn..


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nick Lingris: Συμφωνώ με την περίφραση: απαρνητές των εγκοσμίων, αρνητές του κόσμου.
14 hrs
  -> Καλημέρα, 'φχαριστώ.
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