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qu'une certaine permanence dans la finalité guerrière

English translation: It is the techniques that a demonstrate a certain continuity in the purposes of war,

21:20 Jan 2, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Archaeology
French term or phrase: qu'une certaine permanence dans la finalité guerrière
C'est dans le domaine des techniques qu'une certaine permanence dans la finalité guerrière peut être saisie, pour autant que l'on resitue le problème dans une large perspective chronologique.
MSH
Local time: 15:00
English translation:It is the techniques that a demonstrate a certain continuity in the purposes of war,
Explanation:
if we place the matter in historical perspective.

The French sentence order is not random. The "C'est..." construction is used to demonstrate a contrast with respect to some previous topic: "With respect to X, warfare changed dramatically. It is Y that shows a certain continuity...

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Note added at 2003-01-03 14:20:23 (GMT)
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Response to Ngmc: The techniques of war show continuity in the purpose: no matter how different they may be, the purpose (finalite, i.e. the final cause in the Aristotelian sense, the purpose/goal) is to kill other people. The techniques themselves could not show the final results, which is the destruction of the victims.
Selected response from:

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 08:00
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1Viewed from a broad chronological perspective, it is within the area of technique that we can...
PaulaMac (X)
5A certain permanence of warmaking purpose can be
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
4 +1Agree with PaulaMac
Noel Castelino
4 +1It is the techniques that a demonstrate a certain continuity in the purposes of war,
William Stein
4viewed in a broad chronological perspective, a prevalence for war-making is evident in their technol
markmx
4sentence
Bruce Popp
4Setting it (*) in a wide chronological context, a certain degree of continuity in the warring finali
Nikki Scott-Despaigne


  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
A certain permanence of warmaking purpose can be


Explanation:
ascertained in the area of techniques {technical areas] if the issue is viewed in broad chronological perspective.

I hesitated to translate this sentence because the other one I did translate with the hyphens didn't work for you. Funny, I have spent years on French intellectual discourse and usually people like my translations ...




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Note added at 2003-01-02 21:40:33 (GMT)
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Or A certain permanence of warmaking finality can be

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Note added at 2003-01-03 14:54:10 (GMT)
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PLEASE NOTE: techniques means whatever weapons were being made.

GOOGLE shows lots of hits for TECHNOLOGY

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Note added at 2003-01-03 14:56:26 (GMT)
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FINAL: A certain permanence in the aim of warfare can be ascertained in the area of technology when the issue is viewed in broad chronologinal perspective

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Noel Castelino: Take heart: I'm sure it wasn't a question of not liking your translations so much as liking the other translations too.
11 mins
neutral  markmx: Nice, but I hesitate on agreeing full-heartedly (NB the -) because of 'techniques' & 'technical areas'
34 mins
  -> tool making, pottery, flint making: those are techniques, no?
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: The meaning has to be "technique", your first option, ra
11 hrs
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
viewed in a broad chronological perspective, a prevalence for war-making is evident in their technol


Explanation:
technology

See, I sacrificed the better 'from a' for 'in a' just to squeeze in the last word, and it still didn't fit!

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Note added at 2003-01-02 22:10:37 (GMT)
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\"Viewed from a broad chronological perspective, a prevalence for war-making is evident in their technology\"


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Note added at 2003-01-03 16:05:21 (GMT)
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if some aspect of \'le problème\' is the action or result of warring, then I\'d suggest intensifying the noun to \'war-mongering\';

i.e.: \"Viewed from a broad chronological perspective, a prevalence for war-mongering is evident in their technology\"


markmx
Local time: 16:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
sentence


Explanation:
"Within the domain of technology a certain permanence in the aim of war can be ascertained, in so much as the problem is view from a broad chronological perspective."



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Note added at 2003-01-02 23:16:24 (GMT)
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*is viewed*

Bruce Popp
United States
Local time: 07:00
Native speaker of: English
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Viewed from a broad chronological perspective, it is within the area of technique that we can...


Explanation:
see a degree of consistency in the ultimate aim of warfare.

or:
It is in the technical aspects that we can see a certain level of consistency in the ultimate aim of warfare, from a broad chronological perspective.

or:
Over time, the ultimate aim of warfare has remained consistent in the area of technique.

Of course, there are probably another dozen ways of expressing this, but I believe this is the essence. "permanence" here means consistency, over time.

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Note added at 2003-01-03 03:26:23 (GMT)
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Over time, it is in the technical aspects that the ultimate aim of warfare has remained consistent.

PaulaMac (X)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Noel Castelino: I think you put it very well but have a couple of questions. See my answer.
9 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Agree with PaulaMac


Explanation:
...but have two questions.

1. Is it "aims" or "end results" ? The latter somehow seems more logical to me (even if "finalité" usually refers to goals) but I may be wrong.

2. "the technical aspects": I wonder if this shouldn't be: "with respect to technology" or "in its technology". Again I am not sure.

And I think your amended "Over time" is better than "In broad chronological perspective".

All in all, a good answer if I may say so.



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Note added at 2003-01-03 09:37:34 (GMT)
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Or if not \"over time\", perhaps \"in the long term\".

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Note added at 2003-01-03 10:03:03 (GMT)
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From Larousse de la langue française: Lexis

finalité n.f. (1865): Caractère d\'un fait, d\'un enchaînement, d\'événements où l\'on voit un but, une évolution orientée.

Noel Castelino
Local time: 16:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  PaulaMac (X): Technology - of course!! Still not sure about aims and results.
5 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Setting it (*) in a wide chronological context, a certain degree of continuity in the warring finali


Explanation:
This is not that easy without fuller context. For example, we don't know what "the problem" is referring to. Another example, should the article be left in for "la finalité guerrière" as we don't know whether this is being specific or general. It's difficult to know to what extent the extract can be played around with, just how much can be chopped and changed. The risk for you is that the suggestions are likely to be a little too close, or a little too far from the rest of your text.

Me wearing my moderator hat...I suggest that in further postings, you add the sentence which precedes and the one which follows!

Here's my offering as a mere mortal :

Setting it (*) in a wide chronological context, a certain degree of continuity in the warring finality is apparent in terms of/when you consider technique.

(*) In reference to “le problème”, reference to which is logically made in the text which goes before this extract.


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Note added at 2003-01-03 09:35:19 (GMT)
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I must have hit the \"send\" button before finishing my peer grade for Jane\'s suggestion. Here it is :

\"neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne: The meaning has to be \"technique\", your first option, rather than \"technical areas\". If the original had been referring to technical matters, it would no doubt have read \"dans le domaine technique\".


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Note added at 2003-01-03 09:40:04 (GMT)
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I hesitated before using “finality”, but I believe it can work well here, although it is far from being the only possibility. I read the original to have something of an inevitability about it, there was no other option, no turning back, the intention was to go to war.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?finality

Main Entry: fi·nal·i·ty
Pronunciation: fI-\'na-l&-tE, f&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 1833
1 a : the character or condition of being final , settled, irrevocable, or complete b : the condition of being at an ultimate point especially of development or authority
2 : something final; especially : a fundamental fact, action, or belief



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Note added at 2003-01-03 09:40:39 (GMT)
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I hesitated before using “finality”, but I believe it can work well here, although it is far from being the only possibility. I read the original to have something of an inevitability about it, there was no other option, no turning back, the intention was to go to war.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?finality

Main Entry: fi·nal·i·ty
Pronunciation: fI-\'na-l&-tE, f&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 1833
1 a : the character or condition of being final , settled, irrevocable, or complete b : the condition of being at an ultimate point especially of development or authority
2 : something final; especially : a fundamental fact, action, or belief



Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 16:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 35

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Noel Castelino: What means "warring finality" ?
4 mins
  -> See my second (and third - oops) note.
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
It is the techniques that a demonstrate a certain continuity in the purposes of war,


Explanation:
if we place the matter in historical perspective.

The French sentence order is not random. The "C'est..." construction is used to demonstrate a contrast with respect to some previous topic: "With respect to X, warfare changed dramatically. It is Y that shows a certain continuity...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-03 14:20:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Response to Ngmc: The techniques of war show continuity in the purpose: no matter how different they may be, the purpose (finalite, i.e. the final cause in the Aristotelian sense, the purpose/goal) is to kill other people. The techniques themselves could not show the final results, which is the destruction of the victims.

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 08:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Noel Castelino: I like this sentence too, but still don't understand the connection with "purposes". "End results" makes more sense somehow.
2 hrs
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