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archivoltes à double clavage

English translation: archivolts with double keystones

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14:44 Sep 8, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / ecclesiatical architecture
French term or phrase: archivoltes à double clavage
Abbaye de Lagrasse (Aude, France) "il rappelle par son appareil sommaire et ses archivoltes à double clavage, les chevets des églises transpyrénéennes de la même époque"

I'm trying to translate itineraries with short descriptions of numerous Romanesque churches .... for the tourist office where I work
Hilary2
English translation:archivolts with double keystones
Explanation:
Please see my reference and discussion posts.

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Note added at 32 mins (2011-09-08 15:17:08 GMT)
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More double keystones:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-78811-kilburn-hal...

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/default.aspx?pid=2...
Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:28
Grading comment
Thanks Helen, I think I'll use your term archivolts with double keystones although I honestly don't have the knowledge to be able to choose between your answer and Christopher's ! Thanks again to both of you for all your trouble.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1archivolts with double keystones
Helen Shiner
3arches made up of stones with a simple double chamfer profile
Christopher Crockett
Summary of reference entries provided
Clavage
Helen Shiner

Discussion entries: 37





  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
archivolts with double keystones


Explanation:
Please see my reference and discussion posts.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2011-09-08 15:17:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More double keystones:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-78811-kilburn-hal...

http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/default.aspx?pid=2...

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 98
Grading comment
Thanks Helen, I think I'll use your term archivolts with double keystones although I honestly don't have the knowledge to be able to choose between your answer and Christopher's ! Thanks again to both of you for all your trouble.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: Nope. I assume that you mean "arches with double keystones" (since "archivolts" don't have "keystones"), in which case all of my objections made in our discussion still stand.
3 hrs
  -> No, I don't. The archivolts are the visible undersides, as you know. Will now hand it over to you to find something better. It is your specific field, after all. Prove me wrong, Christopher, and I will have learnt something!

agree  fourth: Helen. I have never enjoyed myself more than looking at this discussion and related sites. Thank you Quite right of course. But this has been good!! Yes I do otherwise have a very full life! Hey now!
4 hrs
  -> Hello, fourth - I sincerely hope that is not true!!//We aim to please!
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1 day 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
arches made up of stones with a simple double chamfer profile


Explanation:
Well, looking at the only pic from Lagrasse which I can find on the web which *might* be what this author is talking about:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Slaapzaal...

I have to say that I can see no “double keystones” present at all –indeed, the transverse arches here seem to have *no* keystones at all; the stones of the arch just come together at the center. I would not call those “double keystones” –rather, there *is* no keystone present at all (much less two of them –structurally, an arch can only have one “key” stone).

Furthermore, as we saw in our lengthy discussion of this vexing question, the term “double keystone” *seems* to apply to keystones which are made more prominent by “doubling” the height (and, perhaps, the width) of them, relative to the other stones of the arch.

So, to call these keystone-less arches at Lagrasse “double keystones” (just because there are two stones which meet together at the apex of the arch, where a real, single keystone should be) is not only incorrect on its face, but potentially confusing (esp. if someone [say, a hapless tourist] has any idea at all what a “double keystone” might look like when she reads the term on an English Heritage site.

The only thing which I can see which might be considered “doubled” in those Lagrasse arches is the *profile* [or “plan” if you will] of the stones of the arches, which consist of two “parts” or “levels” –an inner (lower) one which has a simple chamfer to the corners of a rectangular block; this chamfer is “echoed” in the outer (upper) part of the profile of the stones and, thus, might be said to be “doubled.”
However, I’ve never seen this kind of profile described as “doubled” (unfortunately, I can’t recall what term or words might be used to describe this sort of rib profile).

So, I think I’ll just make one up.

How about, “arches made up of stones with a double chamfer profile”?

The whole of Hilary’s phrase, “il rappelle par son appareil sommaire et ses archivoltes à double clavage, les chevets des églises transpyrénéennes de la même époque,” would be rendered as something like;

“with its rather haphazard [i.e., not true ashlar] stone work and its arches made up of stones with simple, double chamfered profiles, it [the building at Lagrasse] recalls the choirs/apses typical of the churches of the region beyond the Pyrenees [in northern Spain] of the same period.”

[Btw, those Lagrasse arches are certainly *not* “Romanesque” (in any sense of that troublesome construct) –though they may well be 12th c., I could even see them as considerably later, in part because of the boldness of their span; remember that complexity in such things as rib/arch profiles is not *necessarily* an accurate indicator of date, esp. in “provincial” architecture of this sort.

Now, I use the term “profile” because that is the term used *consistently* in the art historical literature I am thoroughly familiar with.

*Technically* –lexicographically– yes, it is the “archivolt” of the arch (i.e., the inner surface of the stones of the arch) which has a “double profile.”

But, Websters (and even the venerable OED) aside, anglophile art historians who *specialize* in 12th and 13th c. architecture and sculpture, *consistently* use the term “archivolt” to specifically refer to the *stones* of an arch –especially the carved stones of the arch of a portal.

To make my point, here are the results of a google on “archivolt” (images only): http://tinyurl.com/3qy3gbf

You see, the majority of the images are of parts of sculpted (whether with figures or just with decorative designs) portals.

*That* is what “archivolt” refers to in the field.

Yes, Professor Alison Stones (who owns the very nice U. Pittsburgh site) defines “archivolt” [note the singular] as “Bands or mouldings (moldings, Am.) [note the plural] surrounding an arched opening,” and her accompanying illustration points to a *single* stone –or, perhaps, to the decoration on a single stone.

One of my favorite reference works remains Sir Bannister Fletcher’s A History of Architecture on the Comparative Method (4th ed., 1905 downloadable here: http://www.archive.org/details/historyofarchite00flet ), with its hundreds of quite wonderful drawings (very useful for translators seeking English terminology, btw).

Sir Bannister, much to my surprise, defines “Archivolt” as “The *mouldings* on the *face* of an arch resting on the impost” [emphasis mine], and he offers this illustration of what he means by “face of an arch” from a Romanesque portal:

http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofarchite00flet#page/25...

I.e., he doesn’t mean the “moulding” on the *inside* of the arch, but rather that on the outer “face” of it --as does Professor Stones.

Useful as his work still is, some of his terminology reflects its date and the “state of the question” in architectural history.

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Note added at 7 days (2011-09-15 18:52:15 GMT)
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This building

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Slaapzaal...

is looking more and more to me like 17th c. work (the "Congregation de Saint Maur out of St. Germain de Pres in Paris reformed Benedictine houses all over France at that time, building nice new dormitories for the monks --and huge administrative buildings-- as they went).

those windows with the round-top "lights" above them are certainly of that date, and the arches (with their "archivolts") could well be that late (certainly I'd prefer them there rather than in c. 12, though they *might* be 14th-15th c., esp. in that backward region).

Windows, walls and arches look all of a piece.

So, either this is *not* the building your source is talking about, or your source is *really* out in Left Field (a U.S. baseball term, meaning Beyond the Pale).

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 03:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 79
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Reference comments


8 mins
Reference: Clavage

Reference information:
Clavage est un terme de construction.

Le sens premier est celui de mise en place de la clef d'une voûte ou d'un arc formés de claveaux, c'est-à-dire de pierres taillées en forme de coins. La clef est le claveau formant le faîte de la voûte ou de l'arc.

Par extension c'est l'action consistant à solidariser deux parties d'ouvrage construites indépendamment. Exemple : le clavage du tablier métallique du viaduc des Fades

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavage

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 98
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