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se faire récupérer

English translation: cock a snook, only to be co-opted through it

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11:39 Mar 30, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Text about a painter
French term or phrase: se faire récupérer
"J’ai compris et apprécié au début le pied de nez d’Andy Warhol, mais qu’en a-t-il fait par la suite? Faire un pied de nez et ***se faire récupérer*** par lui !!!"

For the last bit I have this at the moment:

"Thumb your nose up at people and then become part of the system they represent?"
Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 13:44
English translation:cock a snook, only to be co-opted through it
Explanation:
First let me say that most of the other answers completely miss the point. As katsy points out, "lui" can only refer to the "pied de nez"; there is no other noun in the vicinity that it can refer to. Trying to make it refer to "society", "people", "the system" is just wishful thinking. You need to translate what's there.

My suggestion above is more about explaining the meaning than offering a viable translation.


The trouble is, it's not easy. It's pretty clear that the sense of "récupérer" in use here is the sense of taking someone's ideas and using them to a purpose incompatible with their original intention. (Hang on, I'll just get out my Larousse: "reprendre des idées, un mouvement social, en les détournant de leur but premier".)

Maybe, slightly freer, "cock a snook, only to have it co-opted/hijacked".

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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-03-30 17:16:24 GMT)
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More comments for katsy: You are right (about his becoming the official "enfant terrible"), but in a sense that neutralizes him, because they're not really "terrified" any more.
Selected response from:

Richard Benham
France
Local time: 13:44
Grading comment
Thanks Richard, closest to what I used. I actually used a few ideas from a few different answers, but I can't split the points. Many thanks to all.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2sell out to them
Denise DeVries
3 +1cock a snook, only to be co-opted through it
Richard Benham
4be looked after
Ben Gaia
3..became a prisoner of the cocky image he'd given himselfkatsy
3get yourself known in this way
suezen
3come in from the coldDonM
2thumb one's nose / cock a snook at sb.
Jonathan MacKerron


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
thumb one's nose / cock a snook at sb.


Explanation:
is how Le Grand Robert&Collins sees it, which is reflected in your initial take

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Note added at 15 mins (2007-03-30 11:55:38 GMT)
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first rebel against the system, only to become part of it later

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Note added at 20 mins (2007-03-30 11:59:56 GMT)
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first thumbing his nose at the system, only to later be engulfed/absorbed/co-opted by that very same system

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 17
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
come in from the cold


Explanation:
I think the spy metaphor "come in from the cold" would render "se faire recuperer" fairly accurately, but using it would require a bit of a circumlocution along the lines of "Thumb your nose up at the establishment only for this very gesture to become your door in from the cold." I think this pretty accurate, but a bit long (and possibly clumsy).

DonM
Ireland
Local time: 12:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  katsy: Countries separated by a single language eh? Others don't understand cock a snook, I, (UK) don't understand this ; ) (I do understand come in from the cold, but not the whole sentence.
8 mins

neutral  Richard Benham: See my answer about "récupérer".
32 mins
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
se faire récupérer par lui
sell out to them


Explanation:
become commercialized

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-03-30 15:26:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I got it backwards. I meant that people thumbed their nose at him and then profited from his work.

Denise DeVries
United States
Local time: 04:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  mill2: thumb your nose and then sell out
52 mins

neutral  Richard Benham: Sell out to whom? There is no reference to selling out or to any other person.
2 hrs

agree  jean-jacques alexandre: Selling out to the general market
2 days18 hrs
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
get yourself known in this way


Explanation:
thumb your nose up at the system and then use the latter to get yourself known/gain celebrity

something along these lines

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2007-03-30 12:28:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

to make a name for yourself

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-30 16:28:40 GMT)
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on re-reading the sentence and following Richard's logic, you could turn it as 'make fun of /thumb your nose up at the system and then get roped into it'

suezen
Local time: 13:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 91

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Benham: I'm sorry, but where is the reference to getting known?//What you say is true as a matter of art history, but I see no suggestion of it in the text, that's all.
2 hrs
  -> no problem Richard ... the way I see it, he benefited from the publicity and made a name for himself through this ...first part 'qu'en a-t-il fait de suite ... but I take your point and see where you're coming from :-)
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
cock a snook, only to be co-opted through it


Explanation:
First let me say that most of the other answers completely miss the point. As katsy points out, "lui" can only refer to the "pied de nez"; there is no other noun in the vicinity that it can refer to. Trying to make it refer to "society", "people", "the system" is just wishful thinking. You need to translate what's there.

My suggestion above is more about explaining the meaning than offering a viable translation.


The trouble is, it's not easy. It's pretty clear that the sense of "récupérer" in use here is the sense of taking someone's ideas and using them to a purpose incompatible with their original intention. (Hang on, I'll just get out my Larousse: "reprendre des idées, un mouvement social, en les détournant de leur but premier".)

Maybe, slightly freer, "cock a snook, only to have it co-opted/hijacked".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2007-03-30 17:16:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More comments for katsy: You are right (about his becoming the official "enfant terrible"), but in a sense that neutralizes him, because they're not really "terrified" any more.

Richard Benham
France
Local time: 13:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thanks Richard, closest to what I used. I actually used a few ideas from a few different answers, but I can't split the points. Many thanks to all.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  katsy: agree with the 'slightly freer' version// Exactly how I see it - or at least that he became the 'enfant terrible' 'attitré', accepted by those he was trying to rebel against ... hence my proposal of 'hoist by his own petard'.
37 mins
  -> Yeah, OK. I think the point is that it's not saying that he sold out to the establishment, but rather that the establishment co-opted him/his ideas, and so he was, as it were, deprived of his enfant terrible status against his will....
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
be looked after


Explanation:
...insult them and then expect them to look after you...

Ben Gaia
New Zealand
Local time: 23:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
..became a prisoner of the cocky image he'd given himself


Explanation:
I understand this as meaning that he got cocky with the system, and then was 'récupéré' by the very image that he had actively sought to give himself
So I would suggest sth like - 'cockiness' for the first 'pied de nez' and then: 'He thumbed his nose (at the system) and then became a prisoner of the cocky image he'd given himself'
Somewhat long-winded maybe??? hth


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Note added at 56 mins (2007-03-30 12:35:52 GMT)
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excuse me - I meant to make it clear that the 'lui' in 'par lui' seems to me to refer to the 'pied de nez'

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-03-30 15:02:53 GMT)
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Was actually coming back here with a (???) brainwave, then discover that the non-Brits don't appear to know 'cock a snook' - a bit old-fashioned maybe, but, well, if you don't like it 'thumb your nose' is fine by me.
Back to the brainwave, but I fear it may get the same reception as 'cocking a snook' he thumbed his nose / cocked a snook and got hoist by his own petard.
Perhaps too much accumulation of idioms??!! Anyway, just a thought! At least it's less long-winded and doesn't stray, as Richard pointed out for my first post.


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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2007-03-31 13:05:36 GMT)
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Note for Richard in answer to note re 'enfant terrible'... well precisely, but I see them (the establishment) as then being able to say 'Isn't he terrible? Doesn't like a thing we stand for. But he's a lovely person, and of course we're terribly broad-minded, so we don't mind if he criticises us - just shows how tolerant we are'. Which of course allows 'the establishment' not to question any of its previous assumptions, and which is what AW DIDN'T want .

katsy
Local time: 13:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 17

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Benham: I think your analysis is correct, but your solution is a little long-winded and strays a bit.//We say "thmb one's nose", but I kept "cock a snook" (which is known, but quaint, where I come from) to give the "lui" sometihing to refer to.
1 hr
  -> Thanks Richard. Long-winded, yes, aware of that. 'he'd given himself' is that the straying bit? If so, I take your point. I think your 'freer' proposal is good!//Good point, but personally I have no problem with 'cock a snook' anyway :)
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
PRO (3): Denise DeVries, katsy, Richard Benham


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Changes made by editors
Mar 30, 2007 - Changes made by Richard Benham:
LevelNon-PRO » PRO


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