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se heurter a

English translation: continues to be a stumbling block for comparative mythology

11:21 Aug 14, 2002
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary / literary theory
French term or phrase: se heurter a
"Cette rencontre inexpliquee, que l'analyse structurale au mise a jour, est offerte en exemple des difficultes provisoirement ou definitivement insolubles auxquelles la mythologie comparee continue de se heurter."

This is from an article I am reading. I wonder if "au mise a jour" is a typo; and how would one render "se heurter a" in such a sentence.

(P.s. apologies for the lack of accents in my typing)
R.J.Chadwick (X)
Local time: 03:49
English translation:continues to be a stumbling block for comparative mythology
Explanation:
l'analyse structurale au mise à jour=
structural analysis in updating itself or structural analysis in updated form

it's slightly weird. Sounds like someone attempting to make one of those cool French literary sentences, which can be exquisite, and not hitting the mark...
Selected response from:

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Grading comment
I have to confess to having done something sneaky (though, I guess, sneakier things have been done before). The sentence I enquired about is in fact from a bilingual (French and English) abstract for the article (in French) I am reading. The supposed English equivalent reads as follows: “This unexplained homology, brought to light through a structural analysis, is used as an example of the temporarily or definitively unsolvable difficulties that still crop up in comparative mythology”. Reading these two texts side by side I wondered how the translator had got “still crop up in” from “continue de se heurter (a)” and whether that could be justified. (Never mind how they got “unexplained homology” from “rencontre inexpliquee”!). All I found (for “se heurter” when I scurried to the dictionary were things like “collide” and “clash”).

The combined response of all has been very edifying. All of the answers have merit but I liked that of Ms. Jane Lamb Ruiz best because it reads well and does not depart from the intended sense of the original – unlike “still crop up in” which occludes the sense of agency of the implied researchers. “Still run into” also would have been a good choice – but I had to choose just one.

I am very grateful for these responses and, indeed for everything I have learned about translation in a very short period at Proz.com.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +9come up against
writeaway
5 +5continues to be a stumbling block for comparative mythology
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
4 +1is still confronted with / still faces
DPolice
5continues to challenge.
Ben Gaia
4continues opposing to
Anacalixto
4run into
Björn Houben
4comes into conflict with
Richard George Elliott
4About the typo...
Richard Genest
4run into problem
morrison
4comparative mythology continues to face/to stumble against.
Jean-Luc Dumont
3fall foul of
Mpoma
2regarding the typo...
Teletariat


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +9
come up against


Explanation:
one of the meanings of se heurter à and the one that struck me on first reading of your text.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-15 06:59:20 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps the asker should have presented the real question he had about the text and then we all could have tackled the translation differently and learned something by doing it. Hiding what you are really looking for isn\'t sneaky, it\'s just not very nice.

writeaway
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2913

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Linda Young (X)
2 mins
agree  swani (X)
15 mins
agree  Pascale Dahan
23 mins
agree  Gina W
58 mins
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne
1 hr
agree  eliyahug: Elliott Green
2 hrs
agree  Richard Genest
3 hrs
agree  Jean-Luc Dumont
12 hrs
agree  Sue Crocker
1 day 1 hr
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
continues opposing to


Explanation:
-

Anacalixto
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 2
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
is still confronted with / still faces


Explanation:
a mise au jour = has revealed

DPolice
Local time: 21:49
PRO pts in pair: 454

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mehdi TAMIMY: we should read "a mis à jour" and not "au mise à jour"
17 mins
neutral  writeaway: agree with the typo correction. also with to be confronted with (was going to add that until I read yours),but I don't like still. I prefer the verb 'continue' in this case. Is closer to ongoing.
27 mins
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
run into


Explanation:
...continues to run into.

Björn Houben
Belgium
Local time: 21:49
Native speaker of: Native in FlemishFlemish, Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 13
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +5
continues to be a stumbling block for comparative mythology


Explanation:
l'analyse structurale au mise à jour=
structural analysis in updating itself or structural analysis in updated form

it's slightly weird. Sounds like someone attempting to make one of those cool French literary sentences, which can be exquisite, and not hitting the mark...

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 8576
Grading comment
I have to confess to having done something sneaky (though, I guess, sneakier things have been done before). The sentence I enquired about is in fact from a bilingual (French and English) abstract for the article (in French) I am reading. The supposed English equivalent reads as follows: “This unexplained homology, brought to light through a structural analysis, is used as an example of the temporarily or definitively unsolvable difficulties that still crop up in comparative mythology”. Reading these two texts side by side I wondered how the translator had got “still crop up in” from “continue de se heurter (a)” and whether that could be justified. (Never mind how they got “unexplained homology” from “rencontre inexpliquee”!). All I found (for “se heurter” when I scurried to the dictionary were things like “collide” and “clash”).

The combined response of all has been very edifying. All of the answers have merit but I liked that of Ms. Jane Lamb Ruiz best because it reads well and does not depart from the intended sense of the original – unlike “still crop up in” which occludes the sense of agency of the implied researchers. “Still run into” also would have been a good choice – but I had to choose just one.

I am very grateful for these responses and, indeed for everything I have learned about translation in a very short period at Proz.com.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  markmx
22 mins
  -> Thanx
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Nice solution
1 hr
  -> Thanx, Nokki
agree  NancyLynn
5 hrs
  -> Thanx
agree  Sue Crocker
1 day 54 mins
  -> Thanx. For Yolanda: I was drying my nails
agree  Yolanda Broad: Gorgeous phrasing. You should'a been a lit. crit. You'd wow them!
1 day 11 hrs
  -> I do dabble Yoland. Ssh, don't tell anyone...:)
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
comes into conflict with


Explanation:
As another alternative. Bit more emphatic than "come up against".

Richard George Elliott
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:49
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 23
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
regarding the typo...


Explanation:
I think ..que l'analyse structurale au mise a jour... should read:
that structural analysis has brought up to date

As for the last part, I think come up against is good.

Teletariat
France
Local time: 21:49
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 34
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
About the typo...


Explanation:
It should read " A mise AU jour " (has revealed). "a mise à jour" means "has updated".

Richard Genest
PRO pts in pair: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jean-Luc Dumont: a mise à jour but it means brought up to light - revealed
9 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
continues to challenge.


Explanation:
.

Ben Gaia
New Zealand
Local time: 07:49
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 216
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
run into problem


Explanation:
Someting disturb that Things can\'t work..possibly,there\'s some obstacle, and hit into that.

morrison
Local time: 04:49
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
comparative mythology continues to face/to stumble against.


Explanation:

....insoluble difficulties/problems comparative mythology continues to face.


au mise à jour = a mise à jour

mettre à jour = to reveal, to bring up to light,

has revealed/brought up to light

Jean-Luc Dumont
France
Local time: 21:49
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in pair: 1108
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4816 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
se heurter à
fall foul of


Explanation:
From Bridge legal dictionary. May be useful in certain circs.

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:49
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 262
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