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langue endogène

English translation: endogenous language

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:langue endogène
English translation:endogenous language
Entered by: mwatchorn
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07:35 Apr 13, 2001
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
French term or phrase: langue endogène
les grands langues de diffusion internationale n'ont pas effacé les langues endogenes ...
Conseil des langues régionales endogenes de la Communauté francaise (Belgique)
I have found this translated as endogenous in the dictionary but have never seen it in English before. What is the difference between endogenous and indigenous? Thanks in advance for your help.
mwatchorn
Local time: 20:42
Follow up on “indigenous” and “endogenous”
Explanation:
This follow up to my earlier post is intended to make explicit a number of points that I had assumed to be clearly understood.

It is obvious from the definitions that I quoted earlier that the terms “indigenous” and “endogenous” share so much semantical overlap that, at some level, one cannot say that “endogenous” is “wrong.” The issue here is not right and wrong. The issue has to do with the standard term in the context of languages.

What I mean is this: If you search long enough, you will find some texts in which the expression “endogenous language” is used. Here is one:

http://www.wallonie.com/wallang/

“Official attention came in 1990, with the vote of a decree which recognizes the existence of "endogenous languages" (not named) in the so-called "French community" (i.e. Wallonia and the French-speaking population of Brussels) of the Belgian federal state. The decree states that these languages should be studied and their use encouraged. A specific committee for "endogenous languages" was created with the Ministry of Culture, but nothing much has happened so far”

This text is interesting in that the expression “endogenous language” is quoted from another source, which is clearly French. You and I know how easy it is to slip into “endogenous” when translating from the French.

To further demonstrate the semantical overlap between “indigenous” and “endogenous,” here is a text that uses both in the same paragraph:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/planning/no...

“Often a language has elaborate registers for some domains (religious texts, poetry, belles-lettres) but some endogenous language (colonial or otherwise) is used for education (esp. higher ed.), law courts, the constitution, etc. A kind of diglossia exists with the “foreign” language occupying the H levels or domains, and the indigenous language(s) occupying the L domains.”


These examples notwithstanding, the term “indigenous” is the term that is used with overwhelming frequency in the context of language. Whatever ethnic or anthropological connotations that may be read in the term are no more a barrier than the biological connotations of “endogenous.”

In other contexts, “endogenous” may have acquired predominance. For instance, Gordon Brown cannot be faulted for using the expression “endogenous growth” in the context of economics.

Neither can you be faulted (and this is my point) even if you decide to use “endogenous” in the context of language. Its meaning is clear enough, and, as I said in my earlier post, it even “looks” closer to the French “endogene.” But if you are interested in the standard term, then “indigenous language” is the one most commonly used.


Fuad
Selected response from:

Fuad Yahya
Grading comment
the reference supplied regarding the French community in Belgium was very close to what is discussed in my paper that I felt endogenous was the right way to go in the end. Thanks to all who helped.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
naendogenousPaul Becke
naFollow up on “indigenous” and “endogenous”Fuad Yahya
naindigenous language (or languages)Fuad Yahya
naendogenous languages
Parrot
napure languages
1964
naendogenous language
Yolanda Broad


  

Answers


14 mins
endogenous language


Explanation:
Endogenous, from the Shorter OED, ... 3. having an internal cause or origin; spec. (Med. & Psychiatry) having a cause inside the body or self, not attributable to any external environmental factor.

So, in fact, the notion of an "endogenous language," whether in French or in English, is linguistic nonsense! But that shouldn't stop the French, or, apparently, the Belgians, here (the term seems to be related to a claim of "endogenousness" for Wallon). And I did come across 5 hits on Google for "endogenous language" and 4 for "endogenous languages".

Formulation, Codification, Elaboration, Implementation
... registers for some domains (religious texts, poetry, belles-lettres) but some endogenous language (colonial or otherwise) is used for education (esp. higher ed ...
ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/planning/node3.html

A Unique Phenomenon - Page25
... of one Prakrit. As scholars have pointed out, Hindi developed, like Romance languages in Europe, as an exogenous and not as an endogenous language. Viswanath ...
www.hindubooks.org/HinduPhe/a_unique_phenomenon/page25.htm

english or English? Attitudes, Local Varieties and English ...
... will remain a problem as official translation of texts into an endogenous language is expensive, time consuming and frequently not a practical alternative. The ...
www.zait.uni-bremen.de/wwwgast/tesl_ej/ej09/a2.html

ECONOMIC THEORIES OF LANGUAGE
... large enough. With endogenous language learning there are some assumed economic benefits to both economic and linguistic agglomeration. Network externalities ...
www.pch.gc.ca/offlangoff/perspectives/english/economic/ch2_... - 67k

GeoNative - Belgium - Flandres - Brussels
... Waimes/Weismes, next to the official German area in Wallonia) E) Other endogenous language communities with no recognition at all are ( in use for theatre ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/be.html

I find all of 11 entries in French, so this isn't a very widespread concept. But, in any case, it definitely isn't the same as "indigenous."

And here is a definition I picked up on a site titled "De l'usage de la langue":

Langue endogène

Langue endogène : issue d’une
langue plus générale, la langue
endogène est un parler qui a
évolué, s’est transformé, s’est
individualisé dans une aire
géographique déterminée où il
continue une tradition
multiséculaire.
mrw.wallonie.be/sg/dsg/dircom/walcartes/pages/car103.htm


    Shorter OED
    Google searches
Yolanda Broad
United States
Local time: 15:42
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1551

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
egmtrad

Bono
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57 mins
pure languages


Explanation:
It sound like something "Racial" approach and perhaps pure fits .

1964
Turkey
Local time: 23:42
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish
PRO pts in pair: 294
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr
endogenous languages


Explanation:
The term is anthropological and means "internal, coming from the inside" (endogenous marriages, endogenous kinships, etc.). The opposite is "exogenous" and usually refers to political relationships (note that in this sense, an in-law is a "political" relation). It may be collateral to something "indigenous" (native), but is not necessarily so.

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 21:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1861
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3 hrs
indigenous language (or languages)


Explanation:
The context that you provided strongly supports “indigenous,” even if “endogenous” seems more of a cognate to the French “endogenes.”

Here are the lexical definitions of the two terms, according to the American Heritage Dictionary:

indigenous:

1. Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. synonyms with native

2. Intrinsic; innate.


endogenous:

1. Produced or growing from within.

2. Originating or produced within an organism, tissue, or cell.

The term "endogenous" seems to be popular in the medical sciences. Merriam-Webster’s Medical Dictionary defines “endogenous” as follows:

1. Growing from or on the inside.

2. Caused by factors within the body or mind or arising from internal structural or functional causes

3. Relating to or produced by metabolic synthesis in the body.


Based on these distinctions, I favor “indigenous.” To support this suggestion, here are a few citations:

http://www.ncbe.gwu.edu/miscpubs/stabilize/

“Stabilizing Indigenous Languages
Gina Cantoni, Editor
A Center for Excellence in Education Monograph
Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff
Stabilizing Indigenous Languages is a special issue of Northern Arizona University's Center for Excellence in Education Monograph Series, Perspectives.


http://www.ncbe.gwu.edu/miscpubs/stabilize/i-needs/rationale...

“Rationale and Needs for Stabilizing Indigenous Languages

Jon Reyhner

Effective solutions for reversing the loss of American Indian and Alaska Native languages must be found and implemented soon. Both indecision and ineffective action will not reverse the current rapid loss of surviving indigenous languages.”


http://www.dnathan.com/VL/austLang.htm

“There are more than 200 Australian Indigenous languages, most of which have been destroyed; all the others are endangered. This site has annotated links to 140 resources for about 40 of these languages. About 30% of these resources are produced by Indigenous people.”


http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~jar/TIL.html

“This site is an outgrowth of a series of annual conferences started in 1994 at Northern Arizona University focusing on the linguistic, educational, social, and political issues related to the survival of the endangered indigenous languages of the world.”


Fuad


    American Heritage Dictionary
    Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary
Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 167

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
Christine York
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs
endogenous


Explanation:
"indigenous" has ethnic anthropological connotations which I don't feel are intended in this context; whereas "endogenous" appears to be a positive governmental/adminstrative "buzz-word", presumably because of its neutrality/transparency.

The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, famously used the term in the context of economics, in a similarly verbose sentence in one of his speeches.



Paul Becke
Local time: 20:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 31
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs
Follow up on “indigenous” and “endogenous”


Explanation:
This follow up to my earlier post is intended to make explicit a number of points that I had assumed to be clearly understood.

It is obvious from the definitions that I quoted earlier that the terms “indigenous” and “endogenous” share so much semantical overlap that, at some level, one cannot say that “endogenous” is “wrong.” The issue here is not right and wrong. The issue has to do with the standard term in the context of languages.

What I mean is this: If you search long enough, you will find some texts in which the expression “endogenous language” is used. Here is one:

http://www.wallonie.com/wallang/

“Official attention came in 1990, with the vote of a decree which recognizes the existence of "endogenous languages" (not named) in the so-called "French community" (i.e. Wallonia and the French-speaking population of Brussels) of the Belgian federal state. The decree states that these languages should be studied and their use encouraged. A specific committee for "endogenous languages" was created with the Ministry of Culture, but nothing much has happened so far”

This text is interesting in that the expression “endogenous language” is quoted from another source, which is clearly French. You and I know how easy it is to slip into “endogenous” when translating from the French.

To further demonstrate the semantical overlap between “indigenous” and “endogenous,” here is a text that uses both in the same paragraph:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/planning/no...

“Often a language has elaborate registers for some domains (religious texts, poetry, belles-lettres) but some endogenous language (colonial or otherwise) is used for education (esp. higher ed.), law courts, the constitution, etc. A kind of diglossia exists with the “foreign” language occupying the H levels or domains, and the indigenous language(s) occupying the L domains.”


These examples notwithstanding, the term “indigenous” is the term that is used with overwhelming frequency in the context of language. Whatever ethnic or anthropological connotations that may be read in the term are no more a barrier than the biological connotations of “endogenous.”

In other contexts, “endogenous” may have acquired predominance. For instance, Gordon Brown cannot be faulted for using the expression “endogenous growth” in the context of economics.

Neither can you be faulted (and this is my point) even if you decide to use “endogenous” in the context of language. Its meaning is clear enough, and, as I said in my earlier post, it even “looks” closer to the French “endogene.” But if you are interested in the standard term, then “indigenous language” is the one most commonly used.


Fuad


    See citations above
Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 167
Grading comment
the reference supplied regarding the French community in Belgium was very close to what is discussed in my paper that I felt endogenous was the right way to go in the end. Thanks to all who helped.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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Changes made by editors
Jan 1, 2006 - Changes made by Fuad Yahya:
FieldOther » Art/Literary


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