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pays du Nord

English translation: Having just read all the other answers, I feel I must add a rider...

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:pays du Nord
English translation:Having just read all the other answers, I feel I must add a rider...
Entered by: Stephanie Mitchel
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22:28 Dec 15, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial / multinational
French term or phrase: pays du Nord
Does this normally mean the countries of northern Europe or Nordic countries? Here it seems to me it's just introducing the countries that are listed right after it.
The wording is: "L'activité du demandeur consistait notamment à développer de nouveaux liens et contacts avec des multinationales d'envergure dans des pays du Nord, les Pays-Bas, l'Allemagne et la Belgique, rejoints par la Suisse fin 1990."
Stephanie Mitchel
United States
Local time: 11:21
Having just read all the other answers, I feel I must add a rider...
Explanation:
dans des pays du Nord = in SOME Northern European countries and NOT in THE Northern European countries. The sentence then continues: NL, D and B, plus CH from 1990... (that CH be other than in N. Europe doesn't matter because it gets a special mention in despatches). As to whether you interpret this as meaning that the some N. European countries = NL, D and B or that it is other countries in the North plus those 3, doesn't really matter at the end of the day. If you translate it as it is written, you maintain the same ambiguity and no-one is any the wiser. I would forget all about Scandinavia/Nordic (which - I repeat - are NOT synonymous) and stick to what the text says.....
HTH
Selected response from:

xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 17:21
Grading comment
I had no idea this would be so controversial! Thanks everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +4Nordic countriespascie
5 +2Northern European countriesJane Lamb-Ruiz
4 +2northern countries
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 +2the Nordic countries
Alan Boydell
4 +2Scandinavia
William Stein
4 +1Having just read all the other answers, I feel I must add a rider...xxxCMJ_Trans
4 +1Nothern European countries
lien
4 +1developed countriesxxxsarahl
4NOT TO BE GRADED
chaplin
4Is it Franco-French?xxxBourth


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Nordic countries


Explanation:
Or Scandinavian.
Or Nothern Europe to be more general.

pascie
Local time: 11:21
PRO pts in pair: 50

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Katerina Kallitsi
32 mins

agree  Azure
33 mins

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
50 mins

agree  Marc Van Gastel
12 hrs
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Scandinavia


Explanation:
Europe
Les pays du nord de l'Europe



Finlande
Islande et Norvège
Suède












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Note added at 5 mins (2003-12-15 22:34:08 GMT)
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Or maybe \"Nordic countries\" is more accurate; I\'m not sure about Iceland.

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Note added at 10 mins (2003-12-15 22:39:00 GMT)
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Europe : Le réseau Pays du nord de l\'Europe - [ Translate this page ]
Pays du nord de l\'Europe. ... Europe Les pays du nord de l\'Europe. ...
www.educagri.fr/reseaux/resgeo/nordeurope.htm

I don\'t think Belgium would be considered \"un pays du Nord\" by the French. If you want to make sure, do a Google search on name of the \"demandeur\" company + Scandanavia and see what you can find out.

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 10:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1737

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jonathan MacKerron: le Petit Robert suggests nordic countries (pays, peuples nordiques)
7 mins
  -> Little Bobby knows what's what!

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
56 mins
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
developed countries


Explanation:
Pays du nord is the new PC word for developed countries, pays du sud for developing countries. Used a lot by NGOs.

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Note added at 2003-12-15 22:54:41 (GMT)
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Besides, Switzerland is not exactly in Scandinavia!

xxxsarahl
Local time: 08:21
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 1306

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: yes it can also mean this
7 mins
  -> I'm honored!

agree  Abdellatif Bouhid: sayonara
18 mins
  -> matane!

neutral  Alan Boydell: True, but not in this context in my opinion
21 mins
  -> what context?

neutral  R. A. Stegemann: Probably not in this context. What's more the so-called North-South dialogue is becoming increasingly archaic as more countries join the OECD. Australia and New Zealand are both members of the OECD.
2 hrs
  -> ?????

neutral  Charlie Bavington: true, but not here I fear - see my comment to Jane about how I interpret the list.
2 hrs
  -> we need a litle more context to know for sure.

disagree  Martin Linger: would mean Benelux and Germany are underdeveloped
9 hrs
  -> what are you talking about?
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Northern European countries


Explanation:
Normally, Nordic countries is PAYS NORDIQUES

pays du Nord would mean Northern European countries

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Note added at 2003-12-15 22:42:40 (GMT)
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the pays du Nord would be Pays du Nord de l\'Europe in French and here they have shortened it.

The Foreign Ministers of the Northern European Countries hope Russia will be flexible
as concerns the problem of the transit of the country\'s citizens from and ...
english.pravda.ru/diplomatic/2002/11/04/39068.html - 64k - Cached - Similar pages

Testicular cancer in nine northern European countries.
Testicular cancer in nine northern European countries. Adami HO, Bergstrom
R, Mohner M, Zatonski W, Storm H, Ekbom A, Tretli S, Teppo ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/ query.fcgi?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7927900&a... - Similar pages

Finishing of Exterior Wood in Northern European Countries
Theme: Surface Improvement to Wood Products Moderator: J. Sell 10.8.1995 9:30 Room:
E5 Finishing of Exterior Wood in Northern European Countries. Ahola, Pirjo. ...
www.metla.fi/iufro/iufro95abs/d5pap57.htm - 4k - Dec 14, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] The United States and the northern European countries, in ?
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version of this document.
... The United States and the northern European countries, in the forefront of self-employed
teleworking Marta Comín Expansión April 19 2002 The ever increasing ...
www.iese.edu/en/files/6_7023.pdf - Similar pages



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Note added at 2003-12-15 22:43:43 (GMT)
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In French, this is usually the way it is said: LONG FORM

Contact, Swiss Media Center, Plan d\'accès. Member of, Les pays du nord
de l\'Europe champions de l’usage des technologies de l\'information. ...
www.swissmedia.ch/qsPortal/Home.asp?C=875&N=1106 - 72k - Dec 14, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages

Europe : Le réseau Pays du nord de l\'Europe - [ Translate this page ]
... Europe Les pays du nord de l\'Europe. ...
www.educagri.fr/reseaux/resgeo/nordeurope.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Yahoo! Actualités - Les pays du nord de l\'Europe champions de l ... - [ Translate this page ]
... lundi 24 novembre 2003, 18h02. Les pays du nord de l\'Europe champions
de l’usage des technologies de l\'information C’est le principal ...
fr.news.yahoo.com/031124/7/3ihgv.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

Les pays du nord de l\'Europe champions de l’usage des ... - [ Translate this page ]
... Actualités > Internet. Les pays du nord de l\'Europe champions de l’usage
des technologies de l\'information Par ZDNet France Lundi 24 novembre 2003, ...
mon.zdnet.fr/actualites/internet/ 0,39020774,39131489,00.htm - 47k - Cached - Similar pages



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Note added at 2003-12-15 22:44:50 (GMT)
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The translation of pays du Nord [de l\'Europe] is Northern European countries

The translation of pays nordiques is the Scandanavian countries.

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Note added at 2003-12-15 23:22:07 (GMT)
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It depends on your context as to whether your go for DEVELOPED countries or Northern European Countires...there is no way to tell by reading your text

Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 8576

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxBourth: Hard to say, but yes, it can be countries north of France, but not as far north as Scandinavia.
1 hr

agree  writeaway: Northern Europe-after all, the French do say la Scandinavie for when they want to refer to Scandinavia... ;-) and economically/financially, it's usually Northern Europe vs Southern Europe
1 hr

neutral  Charlie Bavington: I see what you mean, but wonder why, in that case, NL & D & B are mentioned specifically. I interpret them as being 3 of the elements on a 4-element list. If you said "northern Eur, NL, D & B", it might raise eyebrows, since those countries ARE in N.Eur
2 hrs

neutral  xxxCMJ_Trans: The translation of "pays nordiques" is definitely NOT Scandinavia - it's Nordic countries - Finland and Iceland are Nordic BUT NOT in Scandinavia, for example
8 hrs

agree  laurawheeler
16 hrs

disagree  Pat Jenner: I think Charlie's right.
19 hrs
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
the Nordic countries


Explanation:
Context is everything here.

In a European context, "les pays du Nord" usually means northern Europe in general (including everyting roughly north of France) or can be used in a more narrow sense as meaning Scandinavia. In other contexts , the meaning can be entirely different (e.g. "L'Afrique pâtit des subventions des pays du Nord" meaning industrialized European nations cf. http://www.un.org/french/ecosocdev/geninfo/afrec/vol16no2/16...

The punctuation here suggests "pays du Nord" is part of a list along with the other countries listed and therefore excludes them. Therefore I would say it is to be interpreted in its narrower sense: in reference to the Scandinavian countries.

If the expression was introducing the list of countries listed thereafter, one would have expected a colon rather than a coma. Judge by the quality of the writing whether the author's punctuation can be trusted. Based one the sample sentence alone, I would suggest it was written by an educated native speaker with a good command of the written language and would therefore suggest his punctuation can be trusted.


    Reference: http://www.educagri.fr/reseaux/resgeo/nordeurope.htm
Alan Boydell
France
Local time: 17:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jonathan MacKerron: Webster defines the Nordic countries as " Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, and Finland"
2 mins
  -> That's what I meant by 'Scandinavian countries'

neutral  xxxsarahl: I think we have an apposition here, hence the coma. Plus, Switzerland is hardly north of France!
59 mins
  -> Good grasp of Geography!

agree  Charlie Bavington: I agree with your analysis, Scandinavia + NL + D + B + later CH.
2 hrs

agree  Martin Linger: strong point
8 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Is it Franco-French?


Explanation:
Who is the writer and who is his audience? "Les pays du Nord" often refers to the regions of the north of France (Picardy, Nord, Pas de Calais), especially when Belgium is in the next breath. And note that Belgium seceded from "les pays du nord" (in this case Holland) in 1830.

Given that with the exception of Switzerland, the countries listed are very close if not immediate neighbours of the France's northern regions, it could well be this.

Question of perspective.

xxxBourth
Local time: 17:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 18679
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
NOT TO BE GRADED


Explanation:
Dans le texte on devrait avoir dans les pays du Nord
des n'a pas lieu d'être ici..
C'est un drôle de français!!!

chaplin
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:21
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 569

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxsarahl: c'est bien pour ça que je pense que c'est une apposition !
1 hr
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Having just read all the other answers, I feel I must add a rider...


Explanation:
dans des pays du Nord = in SOME Northern European countries and NOT in THE Northern European countries. The sentence then continues: NL, D and B, plus CH from 1990... (that CH be other than in N. Europe doesn't matter because it gets a special mention in despatches). As to whether you interpret this as meaning that the some N. European countries = NL, D and B or that it is other countries in the North plus those 3, doesn't really matter at the end of the day. If you translate it as it is written, you maintain the same ambiguity and no-one is any the wiser. I would forget all about Scandinavia/Nordic (which - I repeat - are NOT synonymous) and stick to what the text says.....
HTH

xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 17:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5264
Grading comment
I had no idea this would be so controversial! Thanks everyone.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  lien
6 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
northern countries


Explanation:
Just a suggestion that to reduce the guesswork factor, you may prefer to opt for something close to the original, leaving the same degree of ambiguity in your English rendering as there appears to be in the original.

The other solution would be to check with the client - which is probably the best solution here in any event.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 17:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4419

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alan Boydell: Good point!
24 mins

agree  xxxsarahl: la voix de la raison !
13 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Nothern European countries


Explanation:
Il y a une virgule apres pays du Nord, je comprends que les pays-bas, l'allemagne et la belgique sont ces pays du Nord, quant a la suisse cela n'a rien a voir dans l'affaire puisque le texte dit : rejoints par la Suisse, il aurait pu dire par l'espagne, c'est a part.

Les pays bas la belgique et l'allemagne sont compris comme pays du nord de l'europe en europe.

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Note added at 4 hrs 1 min (2003-12-16 02:29:41 GMT)
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Je sais que rambo a repondu la meme chose mais je n\'ai pas eu le courage de lire les explications, trop longues et peut-etre qu\'elle change encore d\'avis en cours de route (ca s\'est vu), et puis je voulait mettre mon explication.

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Note added at 4 hrs 1 min (2003-12-16 02:29:59 GMT)
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voulais

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Note added at 14 hrs 59 mins (2003-12-16 13:28:14 GMT)
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Shame ! I just saw it today, it is Northern European countries

lien
Netherlands
Local time: 17:21
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 80

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxCMJ_Trans: quite!
13 hrs
  -> oui, c'est normal qu'on ait la meme opinion, c'est la bonne reponse ! :D
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