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P/le directeur

English translation: (pour le directeur) for the director

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:P/le directeur
English translation:(pour le directeur) for the director
Entered by: xxxjeantrans
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

21:09 Dec 10, 2010
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Bus/Financial - Business/Commerce (general)
French term or phrase: P/le directeur
P/le directuer
Le bureau des Affaires Médicales

Appearing right over a seal and above a signature

I don't belive I've ever seen this type of construction before, with the slash. Is this simply
"for the Director"? Thanks in advance.

Jean
xxxjeantrans
(pour le directeur) for the director
Explanation:
Sigles / Siglas: P. Le Directeur et P.O. - WordReference Forums - [ - Letzter Eintrag: 18. Nov. 2009
¿Alguien sabe qué significan las siglas en: P. Le Directeur et P.O.? Se trata del sello del director de un instituto marroquí. Gracias. ...
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1605249
Selected response from:

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 12:00
Grading comment
Thank you to everyone!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +7(pour le directeur) for the directorEllen Kraus
Summary of reference entries provided
p.p., per procurationemxxxBourth

  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
(pour le directeur) for the director


Explanation:
Sigles / Siglas: P. Le Directeur et P.O. - WordReference Forums - [ - Letzter Eintrag: 18. Nov. 2009
¿Alguien sabe qué significan las siglas en: P. Le Directeur et P.O.? Se trata del sello del director de un instituto marroquí. Gracias. ...
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1605249

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 12:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 34
Grading comment
Thank you to everyone!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Travelin Ann: when an assistant signs on behalf of the director
1 min
  -> thank you, Ann !

agree  Allison Wright
2 mins
  -> thank you, Alison !

agree  David Salas
2 mins
  -> thank you, David !

agree  Bashiqa: Often; pp i.e. for and on behalf of
32 mins
  -> thank you, Bashiqa !

agree  AllegroTrans: yes, but this is not a PRO term
1 hr
  -> thank you, AllegroTrans !

agree  xxxBourth: Yep, we English-speakers have twitchy fingers so double the p. - stands for per proxy, a famous Swedish doctor, or something like that / Got there eventually.
1 hr
  -> thank you, Bourth. another alternative might be the Latin term p. pro/per procurationem

disagree  Robin Levey: 'for the director' is not a valid translation of 'P/le directeur'. The correct translation is given/inferred/suggested in Bourth's reference comment, below and requires the use of 'pp'.
3 hrs
  -> if somebody signs for so else in his absence, he signs for the absent person, that it is per proxy goes without saying.

agree  Louis Cyril P
5 hrs
  -> thank you, Louis Cyril P !

agree  Gallagy
5 hrs
  -> thank you, gallagy2

agree  rkillings: Good plain English. The p.p., if you use it, goes before the name of the person actually signing (by proxy), on the line below.
1 day 4 hrs
  -> thank you, rkillings !

disagree  dalil: for the director is a word to word translation , but i doesn't fit such context ( personally i prefer to use ON BEHALF OF THE DIRECTOR
2537 days
  -> But there is another alternative as well, someone signs for the director, because same is prevented for some reason or other, so that someone else steps in without being legally entitled. It´s an informal act and informal language.
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Reference comments


1 hr peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: p.p., per procurationem

Reference information:
Procuration (Lat. procurare, to take care of) is the action of taking care of, hence management, stewardship, agency. The word is applied to the authority or power delegated to a procurator, or agent, as well as to the exercise of such authority expressed frequently by procuration (per procurationem), or shortly per pro., or simply p.p.
A common usage of per procurationem occurs in business letters, which are often signed on behalf of another person. For example, given a secretary authorized to sign a letter on behalf of the president of a company, the signature takes the form:
p.p. Secretary's Signature
President's Name
or
President's Name
p.p. Secretary's Signature
Commonly in practice, an alternative form is used:
Secretary's Signature
p.p. President's Name
The correct usage is the subject of some debate. It has been understood as both "through the agency of" and "on behalf of". [1] [2]
The reason for this is that the meaning of the phrase per procurationem is ambiguous if used with undeclinable English names.
Procuratio is related to the words "pro" (for/on behalf of/instead of) and "cura" (care/attention). It is thus close in meaning to "agency" - acting instead of someone. The phrase 'per procurationem' thus means "by/through agency".
Note that the phrase does not contain a preposition "of". This is because this idea would be expressed through the genitive case in Latin. With time, Latin or Latinized names fell out of usage, and the genitive case of the agent's name (in English of Mr X") was thus lost. The original would look like this:
Praeses
per procurationem Secretarii
or
Josephus Bloggus Senior
per procurationem Josephi Bloggi Junioris (by agency of Joe Bloggs Jr.)
This seems to be the most simple and logical reading.
The other option is that "per procurationem" could be understood as a complete adverbial phrase in itself - "by the agency <of another>", without a dependent genitive. However, this would mean that two people signed the letter, one in his own person, one "by the agency of another" (without that other being expressly indicated).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procuration

Personally I think it matters little how or where the "p.p." is placed. The meaning will be clear however it is presented and ppedants are pprobably the only ffolk who'll kkick up a rrumpus - or more pprecisely your rrumpus if tthey tthink you got it wwrong.

xxxBourth
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 377

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Karen Stokes
9 hrs
agree  B D Finch: Many years ago, I was taught that you should only sign a letter using "pp" if you had a legal power of attorney - but language moves on, even if through misuse being so common that it becomes accepted.
13 hrs
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
Non-PRO (3): AllegroTrans, Catharine Cellier-Smart, MoiraB


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Changes made by editors
Dec 11, 2010 - Changes made by MoiraB:
LevelPRO » Non-PRO


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