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hors-film documentaire

English translation: made-for-television documentary

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11:51 Jun 30, 2004
French to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama / documentaries
French term or phrase: hors-film documentaire
Would it be correct to use the term "direct-to-video" documentary? This is from an article about the sale of documentaries in stores:

"Ce qui marche le mieux dans le domaine du documentaire, c'est le long metrage sorti en salles" indique X. Car paradoxalement, comme dans les registres de l'animation enfants ou des séries télé françaises, le hors-film documentaire est l'un des segment du marché vidéo qui ont le plus souffert de la croissance du DVD."

Thanks, Karen
Karen Tucker
United States
Local time: 11:38
English translation:made-for-television documentary
Explanation:
I found this definition for "hors film" on Eurodicautom:
"ensemble de créations audiovisuelles destinées à la télévision".

Hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 26 mins (2004-07-01 09:17:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I asked someone who makes documentaries, and for him this can mean \"miscellaneous\", depending on the context.

This seems to be the case if you look at the film categories on this dvd distribution site: http://dvd.fr.msn.be/default.php?cPath=47&sort=3d

\"TV-length\" might also work, if you read this:
\"After the emergence of cable in the 1980s, PBS’s monopoly on the types of programs it was best known for (art, classical music, children’s programs, opera, nature and serious documentaries, etc.) began to erode, and programmers began to tell the NEH and other suppliers of media that they were primarily interested in TV-length programs in a series about a major subject that had a chance at developing a mass market. In this programming world there is fierce competition for an audience in a particular time slot. With the one exception of the PBS “POV” series, which shows independent documentaries (but only if they are standard 58-minute shows), the demands of mass marketing made it nearly impossible to find broadcast outlets for the single documentary or for material that did not conform to broadcast-length standards or whose style was idiosyncratic or whose subjects were considered too local or specialized, even though some of these films were acclaimed at film festivals and recognized as documentary classics in college courses.\"
(http://www.folkstreams.net/pages/proposal.html).

or \"short doc\"
\"Their other objective was to close loopholes in the short doc category. AMPAS has experienced problems with filmmakers trimming down feature- or TV-length works (52 minutes) and then submitting them as shorts.\"
(http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=nXJC4Zs8Qm5)




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 30 mins (2004-07-01 09:21:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I asked someone who makes documentaries, and for him this can mean \"miscellaneous\", depending on the context.

This seems to be the case if you look at the film categories on this dvd distribution site: http://dvd.fr.msn.be/default.php?cPath=47&sort=3d

\"TV-length\" might also work, if you read this:
\"After the emergence of cable in the 1980s, PBS’s monopoly on the types of programs it was best known for (art, classical music, children’s programs, opera, nature and serious documentaries, etc.) began to erode, and programmers began to tell the NEH and other suppliers of media that they were primarily interested in TV-length programs in a series about a major subject that had a chance at developing a mass market. In this programming world there is fierce competition for an audience in a particular time slot. With the one exception of the PBS “POV” series, which shows independent documentaries (but only if they are standard 58-minute shows), the demands of mass marketing made it nearly impossible to find broadcast outlets for the single documentary or for material that did not conform to broadcast-length standards or whose style was idiosyncratic or whose subjects were considered too local or specialized, even though some of these films were acclaimed at film festivals and recognized as documentary classics in college courses.\"
(http://www.folkstreams.net/pages/proposal.html).

or \"short doc\"
\"Their other objective was to close loopholes in the short doc category. AMPAS has experienced problems with filmmakers trimming down feature- or TV-length works (52 minutes) and then submitting them as shorts.\"
(http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=nXJC4Zs8Qm5)


Selected response from:

Michael McCain
France
Local time: 17:38
Grading comment
After translating the article and doing further research, it appears this can refer to both made-for-TV and direct-to-video documentaries (anything that didn't first appear in a movie theater). The article, however, primarily talks about made-for-TV documentaries. I also looked in Eurodicautom - twice - and got no hits for this term. Are different databases accessible to different people? Thanks to everyone for your research and explanations. Karen
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1video documentaryJane Lamb-Ruiz
2 +2made-for-television documentaryMichael McCain
3 +1direct-to-videoFranck Le Gac


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
direct-to-video


Explanation:
I agree with you that direct-to-video is the most likely translation, and the context helps a lot. I did not know the term "hors-film", but it makes sense that the DVD, which is a more patrimonial medium than VHS tapes (people collect them the way they buy literary classics for their library), would be detrimental to documentaries that have not had a life in theaters, and therefore have not been able to acquire a public reputation (the video market being a very different kind of public sphere).

Franck Le Gac
Local time: 17:38
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  zaphod
7 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
video documentary


Explanation:
I think it refers to the medium not where it is distributed

A documentary made with a video camara as opposed to a movie, film-based camera

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... B3 Prerequisite : SM2229 “Documentary Video I” Precursor ... in advance documentary production techniques. ... using AVID - short documentary productions - final ...
www.cityu.edu.hk/scm/program/courses/sm2230.pdf - Similar pages

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 16 mins (2004-06-30 14:07:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as opped to a documentary shot with movie camera, as I said

Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
25 mins

neutral  Franck Le Gac: Medium and distribution sometimes go together… Until recently many movie theaters (in France) were not equipped to screen video unless transferred onto film (a costly operation). Which is why I agree "hors-salles" would definitely make more sense here.
53 mins
  -> patrimonial as you use it is INCORRECT...when discussing market, no one is going to go around saying direct to video....it's video shot as opposed to film....cultural HERITAGE

agree  HRiley: in the context, this seems like the best solution to me
4 hrs

disagree  zaphod: Why would ANYONE make a film and not distribute it? I thinkn you've got a real problem with the word "Video" here. They're talking direct to video (short subjects) Seems like you're saying the same thing Franck is, but you've thrown in this "distribution"
6 hrs
  -> the term refers to a video documentary; shot with a video camera..as opposed to a movie camera...it does not refer to how the final thing is distributed. could I be any clearer?
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
made-for-television documentary


Explanation:
I found this definition for "hors film" on Eurodicautom:
"ensemble de créations audiovisuelles destinées à la télévision".

Hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 26 mins (2004-07-01 09:17:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I asked someone who makes documentaries, and for him this can mean \"miscellaneous\", depending on the context.

This seems to be the case if you look at the film categories on this dvd distribution site: http://dvd.fr.msn.be/default.php?cPath=47&sort=3d

\"TV-length\" might also work, if you read this:
\"After the emergence of cable in the 1980s, PBS’s monopoly on the types of programs it was best known for (art, classical music, children’s programs, opera, nature and serious documentaries, etc.) began to erode, and programmers began to tell the NEH and other suppliers of media that they were primarily interested in TV-length programs in a series about a major subject that had a chance at developing a mass market. In this programming world there is fierce competition for an audience in a particular time slot. With the one exception of the PBS “POV” series, which shows independent documentaries (but only if they are standard 58-minute shows), the demands of mass marketing made it nearly impossible to find broadcast outlets for the single documentary or for material that did not conform to broadcast-length standards or whose style was idiosyncratic or whose subjects were considered too local or specialized, even though some of these films were acclaimed at film festivals and recognized as documentary classics in college courses.\"
(http://www.folkstreams.net/pages/proposal.html).

or \"short doc\"
\"Their other objective was to close loopholes in the short doc category. AMPAS has experienced problems with filmmakers trimming down feature- or TV-length works (52 minutes) and then submitting them as shorts.\"
(http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=nXJC4Zs8Qm5)




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 30 mins (2004-07-01 09:21:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I asked someone who makes documentaries, and for him this can mean \"miscellaneous\", depending on the context.

This seems to be the case if you look at the film categories on this dvd distribution site: http://dvd.fr.msn.be/default.php?cPath=47&sort=3d

\"TV-length\" might also work, if you read this:
\"After the emergence of cable in the 1980s, PBS’s monopoly on the types of programs it was best known for (art, classical music, children’s programs, opera, nature and serious documentaries, etc.) began to erode, and programmers began to tell the NEH and other suppliers of media that they were primarily interested in TV-length programs in a series about a major subject that had a chance at developing a mass market. In this programming world there is fierce competition for an audience in a particular time slot. With the one exception of the PBS “POV” series, which shows independent documentaries (but only if they are standard 58-minute shows), the demands of mass marketing made it nearly impossible to find broadcast outlets for the single documentary or for material that did not conform to broadcast-length standards or whose style was idiosyncratic or whose subjects were considered too local or specialized, even though some of these films were acclaimed at film festivals and recognized as documentary classics in college courses.\"
(http://www.folkstreams.net/pages/proposal.html).

or \"short doc\"
\"Their other objective was to close loopholes in the short doc category. AMPAS has experienced problems with filmmakers trimming down feature- or TV-length works (52 minutes) and then submitting them as shorts.\"
(http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=nXJC4Zs8Qm5)





    Reference: http://www.iofilm.co.uk/fm/e/elgar_1962.shtml
    Reference: http://www.eonline.com/On/People/forbes.html
Michael McCain
France
Local time: 17:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
After translating the article and doing further research, it appears this can refer to both made-for-TV and direct-to-video documentaries (anything that didn't first appear in a movie theater). The article, however, primarily talks about made-for-TV documentaries. I also looked in Eurodicautom - twice - and got no hits for this term. Are different databases accessible to different people? Thanks to everyone for your research and explanations. Karen

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: makes sense..you'd think they'd call it hors salle, right?
39 mins

agree  Brian Gaffney
19 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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