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catiche

English translation: Comment - NFG

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14:15 Jan 19, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering
French term or phrase: catiche
In a letter regarding a design and build contract, the company sending the letter is telling the addressee that all drilling and grouting work should conform to the recommendations made by Socotec and the "dossier de catiches". The only references I've been able to find so far are to the diminutive of Catherine and an otters' burrow!!!
Sarah Russell
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:52
English translation:Comment - NFG
Explanation:
As far as I am aware, it's a regionalism. So, the translator's eternal question: translate with a similarly regional / specialist term, or give a "defining" translation? Depends largely on who the reader is, I expect.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-01-20 02:15:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

QUARRY vs MINE
Just as a mine can be at the surface or underground, so can a quarry. Traditionally we think of mines as underground and quarries as at the surface, but in fact the difference lies in the type and purpose of the material won from the ground. Mines are mostly for ore or gems, quarries are for stone or aggregate. An underground "mine" from which stone is won (building stone, aggregate) can be called a quarry. So you get both "slate mines" and "underground slate quarries", "marble mines" and "underground marble quarries". If you don't know what sort of stone was mined/quarried, stick to "underground quarry".

While we need to qualify a surface mine as an "open-pit mine", so we need to qualify and underground quarry as a .... an "underground quarry".

The fact that these "catiches" are in the very north of France could be misleading. One automatically thinks of coal mines. But "catiches" are the voids left by limestone quarrying.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2008-01-24 10:07:41 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

While Chambers Sci & tech, for instance, says of "mine", "Subterranean excavation ... Terms quarry, pit, and opencast are reserved for workings open to daylight", it also says "Quarry. (1) An open working or pit for granite, building stone, slate or other rock [thus confirming my take on quarry = rock vs mine = gemstones or ore] (2) An UNDERGROUND working in a coal mine for stone to fill the goaf. Distinction between quarry and mine somewhat blurred in law, but usage implies surface workings".
I certainly agree on the latter point. A mine is underground (unless it's an open-cast mine), and a quarry is at the surface (unless it's an underground quarry). Any word can take on a different meaning from its primary one when qualified.
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 04:52
Grading comment
"Underground quarry workings" it is then! Thanks very much for your extremely useful explanation.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4Comment - NFGxxxBourth
4mine workings
B D Finch
3Underground mining galleriesAlbert Golub


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Underground mining galleries


Explanation:
par exemple

Albert Golub
Local time: 04:52
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
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54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
mine workings


Explanation:
As Albert says, but in the context of construction the term used would usually be "mine workings".

"Mine Workings - properties that are constructed over mine workings or made up ground may experience subsidence problems. Reducing the Risk of Subsidence - a ..."
www.assetsure.com/underpinned-insurance-c.htm - 59k

"listed building, special arrangements may apply. These are explained in ..... later; for example, shallow **mine workings** close to the surface and the ..."
www.coal.gov.uk/media/DC9A1/Coal Mining Subsidence Damages ...

"The mechanics of subsidence above disused limestone workings was generally unknown by ... might have been given to the presumed **mine workings** at Hyvots, ..."
www.edinburgh.gov.uk/.../Corporate_Communications/Press_Rel... - 17k

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Note added at 55 mins (2008-01-19 15:11:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And for a French example with "catiches":
http://membres.lycos.fr/mariana/article.php3?id_article=3

B D Finch
France
Local time: 04:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 752
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Comment - NFG


Explanation:
As far as I am aware, it's a regionalism. So, the translator's eternal question: translate with a similarly regional / specialist term, or give a "defining" translation? Depends largely on who the reader is, I expect.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-01-20 02:15:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

QUARRY vs MINE
Just as a mine can be at the surface or underground, so can a quarry. Traditionally we think of mines as underground and quarries as at the surface, but in fact the difference lies in the type and purpose of the material won from the ground. Mines are mostly for ore or gems, quarries are for stone or aggregate. An underground "mine" from which stone is won (building stone, aggregate) can be called a quarry. So you get both "slate mines" and "underground slate quarries", "marble mines" and "underground marble quarries". If you don't know what sort of stone was mined/quarried, stick to "underground quarry".

While we need to qualify a surface mine as an "open-pit mine", so we need to qualify and underground quarry as a .... an "underground quarry".

The fact that these "catiches" are in the very north of France could be misleading. One automatically thinks of coal mines. But "catiches" are the voids left by limestone quarrying.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2008-01-24 10:07:41 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

While Chambers Sci & tech, for instance, says of "mine", "Subterranean excavation ... Terms quarry, pit, and opencast are reserved for workings open to daylight", it also says "Quarry. (1) An open working or pit for granite, building stone, slate or other rock [thus confirming my take on quarry = rock vs mine = gemstones or ore] (2) An UNDERGROUND working in a coal mine for stone to fill the goaf. Distinction between quarry and mine somewhat blurred in law, but usage implies surface workings".
I certainly agree on the latter point. A mine is underground (unless it's an open-cast mine), and a quarry is at the surface (unless it's an underground quarry). Any word can take on a different meaning from its primary one when qualified.

xxxBourth
Local time: 04:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4135
Grading comment
"Underground quarry workings" it is then! Thanks very much for your extremely useful explanation.
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