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salaison du Val d’Aoste

English translation: Valle d'Aosta salumi

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16:17 Feb 6, 2012
French to English translations [PRO]
Cooking / Culinary / menu
French term or phrase: salaison du Val d’Aoste
Hello all,

I could use some help with this term. It's part of the name of a starter dish on a menu:

"Cromesquis de St Marcellin et salaison du Val d’Aoste, petite salade à l’huile de noix"

I didn't know the word salaison before I came across this sentence, so to me, at first glance it looked like a cromesquis made with Saint-Marcellin cheese and "salaison," a mystery ingredient from Val d'Aoste. However, after having looked into the term, it seems to me that it is much more often (if not exclusively) used to refer to the actual method/process of curing or salting. So what I am wondering is if you think this is referring to some Val d'Aoste method of curing, or if it is indeed a cured meat from Val d'Aoste, and if so, what are your suggestions for translating it? Mine all seem kind of off-putting for a fancy menu" Aosta Valley salt meat," "Aosta Valley cured meat," etc.
Roberta Beyer
United States
Local time: 04:54
English translation:Valle d'Aosta salumi
Explanation:
For maximum cachet, revert to the Italian (in English word order).:-)

What English-speaker who eats at a restaurant in this class would expect to see a term like "cured meat" on the menu in place of words like salame, prosciutto, lardo, etc.?

Salumi is the category term.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2012-02-07 05:01:08 GMT)
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'Salumi valdostani' is what Italians might say, but then they know the place-name adjectives for their country.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 09:44:31 GMT)
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Not *everything* you can buy at a salumeria is salumi, because these shops will probably sell cheese, olives, wine, etc. to go with it. But isn't it the same at a charcuterie?;-)

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 10:09:51 GMT)
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As Tony says, salaison can mean the process (IT salatura, EN salting) or the result (IT salumi, EN ???).

Before we *assume* that the raw ingredient is pork, let me point out that the link above to salumi in Valle d'Aosta also features motsetta, which is essentially the same as bresaola -- and made from beef.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 10:10:28 GMT)
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The link below, that is.
Selected response from:

rkillings
United States
Local time: 02:54
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5Aosta cured meat
Tony M
4 +1Valle d'Aosta salumirkillings
4Val d'Aoste cured ham
Cynthia Johnson


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Val d'Aoste cured ham


Explanation:
It would be helpful if we knew whether this was for US or UK.

Americans know this kind of meat as Prosciutto, even though we all know that only comes from one region of Italy, but they mix it up in the US :)
Depends also if the restaurant is Italian, you can get away with using Italian words for cache as mentioned in another post.

But you can't say 'meat' doesnt sound elegant. Also I'd point out that in the interests of the large numbers of people who do not eat pork, it's important to mention specifically that it is ham...

Cynthia Johnson
France
Local time: 11:54
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Again, the problem is that, in the absence of clarification, this risks being an error; we all know it's likely to be ham, but the fact the s/t doesn't say so does not permit us to over-interpret in this way; "ask customer" is sole solution here.
53 mins

neutral  rkillings: Some Americans know that prosciutto is the Italian word for ham. It's "Parma ham" that has a DOC.
1 hr
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
Aosta cured meat


Explanation:
'Salaison' is of course both the process, and the result; one often comes across it in the plural, 'salaisons', meaning 'a selection ofr cured meats'.

Aosta is of course famous for its ham; but without checking with your customer, you'd better not use that, or risk over-interpretation, as it does of course produce other meat products.

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Note added at 5 minutes (2012-02-06 16:23:37 GMT)
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Also depends how you treat the Saint-Marcellin; you might find 'cured meat from the Aosta Valley' rings better

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Note added at 17 heures (2012-02-07 09:37:01 GMT)
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As several other people have pointed out, the use of 'meat' like this really doesn't work for a menu item — but as I have also cautioned elsewhere, anything more specific risks creating a translation error. Your only real solution is to check with the customer; if you can't, then I insist on the fact that something non-committal like this is the safest solution.

Cynthia raises an important point about pork: again 'cured pork products' isn't really any more appetizing on a menu — and of course do let's remember too that it mightn't necessarily be pork — the Italians also do cured beef, for example, and here in France we have the 'viande de grisons'.

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Note added at 17 heures (2012-02-07 09:55:14 GMT)
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Looking at this from a practical point of view, I ask myself why did the chef choose to express it this way in the source text?

1) They were trying to be pretentious, and get away from saying anything as ordinary as ham

2) They were seeking to be non-committal, as what they put in the plate will depend on their incoming supplies

3) It isn't ham, but they were unsure about calling it by its proper name in case people didn't recognize what it was

4) They like the cachet offered by RK's 'salumi', but were afraid to stick their neck out quite that far.

Personally, and knowing chefs and restaurant managers as I do, I strongly suspect it is indeed ham and that the reason is #1

However, it's not safe to make that assumption without at least attempting to clear up the ambiguity.

Tony M
France
Local time: 11:54
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 382

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
19 mins
  -> Thanks, Phil!

agree  writeaway: Val d'Aosta is easily found by googling and salaison is in most Fr-En dictionaries.
26 mins
  -> Thanks, W/A! Very true, though I can imagine someone unfamiliar with the term's being unsure how to handle it here

agree  Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Alistair!

agree  Letredenoblesse
3 hrs
  -> Merci, Agnes !

agree  Mark Nathan
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Mark!

neutral  Cynthia Johnson: tony is right, and you need to check with the customer, but IMHO you just can't say Meat like that on a menu
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Cynthia! I do rather agree, but in the absence of clarification, there aren't 36 options
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Valle d'Aosta salumi


Explanation:
For maximum cachet, revert to the Italian (in English word order).:-)

What English-speaker who eats at a restaurant in this class would expect to see a term like "cured meat" on the menu in place of words like salame, prosciutto, lardo, etc.?

Salumi is the category term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2012-02-07 05:01:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'Salumi valdostani' is what Italians might say, but then they know the place-name adjectives for their country.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 09:44:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not *everything* you can buy at a salumeria is salumi, because these shops will probably sell cheese, olives, wine, etc. to go with it. But isn't it the same at a charcuterie?;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 10:09:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As Tony says, salaison can mean the process (IT salatura, EN salting) or the result (IT salumi, EN ???).

Before we *assume* that the raw ingredient is pork, let me point out that the link above to salumi in Valle d'Aosta also features motsetta, which is essentially the same as bresaola -- and made from beef.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2012-02-07 10:10:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The link below, that is.


    Reference: http://www.routedesvinsvda.it/rdv/index.cfm/salumi.html
rkillings
United States
Local time: 02:54
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  emiledgar
2 hrs

neutral  Tony M: OK! Would be a good solution to the problem, but I think the term is sufficiently new that many people would make the same mistake as I just did. Haven't come across this term personally yet in Europe (though I only inhabit about 0.000 000 000 1% of it!)
4 hrs
  -> Salumi, not salami. http://www.yumsugar.com/Salumi-118050
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