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rentier/retraité

English translation: annuitant/retiree

14:08 May 2, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Finance (general) / form filling
French term or phrase: rentier/retraité
Is there a difference between these 2 terms? I have them in a form, do I just put retired for one and pensioner for the other? many thanks
Anne Micallef
Local time: 21:40
English translation:annuitant/retiree
Explanation:
Commonest terms in the US ("pensioner" is not usual). Where not all retirees have pension benefits!

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-05-03 20:42:47 GMT)
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Yes, anyone receiving an annuity for any reason, from any source, whether purchased directly by the annuitant or for him/her by a former employer to satisfy a pension obligation. Not exclusively military by any means.
Seems unlikely that a form would use an old-fashioned concept (rentier class) to identify a person of independent means as opposed to one literally the beneficiary of a rente.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2008-05-03 22:30:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A retiree may also be an annuitant. A deceased retiree's spouse receiving a survivor annuity benefit (to take the obvious example) will be an annuitant but need not be a retiree -- at all, or from the standpoint of the pension plan.
Selected response from:

rkillings
United States
Local time: 12:40
Grading comment
Many thanks for your help.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4may be different
Jennifer Levey
4annuitant/retiree
rkillings
4 -3You are right!
Pierre POUSSIN
2 -1no equivalent in the dico for rentier in EN...
BusterK


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
Rentier/Retraité
You are right!


Explanation:
A retiree is just a retired person who has no longer a job (too old!). He generally has a pension.
A pensioner may be a retiree too, does not work, but gets money from banks (dividends etc...)

Pierre POUSSIN
France
Local time: 21:40
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  sueaberwoman: Actually, in some cases a retiree (US anyway) and retraité (France) can draw both a pension and a salary by being employed in a different job. And what about rentier?
10 mins
  -> Not the rentier! I am a retired person, but not a rentier! ;-)
disagree  BusterK: un rentier est titulaire d'une rente (autrefois) et reçoit en conséquence de l'argent à raison de cet actif (la rente). Le retraité, qui peut effectivement avoir encore activité, touche une pension au titre de son travail passé et est "pensioner".
15 mins
  -> Le rentier peut, même maintenant, vivre de ses rentes! Le retraité est parfois (c'est mon cas!) être un OAP! Je crois que vous êtes un peu raide sur le "disagree" but if I am being...busted, let it be!
disagree  Jennifer Levey: Your answer refers only to 'retiree' and 'pensioner', which are the same thing. What about the 'rentier'?
23 mins
  -> I shall let the dipteran fly... Sorry to disturb! ;-)
disagree  Tony M: Sorry, but 'rentier' is something quite different, and one really shouldn't give the false impression they are the same thing
1 hr
disagree  AllegroTrans: Your definition of a pensioner "getting money from banks..." is a nonsense: many pensioners are totally dependent on State pensions
2 hrs
agree  Jack Dunwell: Actually, I agree with your first idea "Remittance Man" What's a dipteran, please?And, while you're at it, Bend Over!
6 hrs
  -> Thnaks... but you are taking risks! Tony knows better!!!
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24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Rentier/Retraité
no equivalent in the dico for rentier in EN...


Explanation:
Pension is not the same as "rente". The key difference is that, if the retiree receives a pension, it is due to its past services.

Whereas the "rentier" possibly never worked and purchased, inherited or whatsoever, a financial asset that entitled him to financial income. He is the owner of financial assets whereas the retiree has no ownership on any asset.

BusterK
Local time: 21:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 108

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jennifer Levey: Try a different dico... (see below...)
2 mins
  -> there are explanation but not a one-word equivalent. that's all I meant...
disagree  AllegroTrans: There is always a way to translate, whatever the dicos. say - BusterK, this is most unlike you...
2 hrs
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24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Rentier/Retraité
may be different


Explanation:
J.O. Kettridge Dico of commercial and financial terms, phrases and practice (1978 ed.):

rentier (1): possesseur de fonds publics ..> stockholder, fund-holder, investor (en)

rentier (2): personne qui à une annuité --> annuintant (en)

rentier (3): pesonne qui vit uniquement de ses rentes; ..> person of independent means (en)

retraité --> pensioner (en)


In Switzerland, 'retraité' refers to anyone who has withdrawn ceased their professional activities having reached a certain age; a 'rentier' is anyone who receives a 'rente' - which may be a disability allowance, widow(er)s pension, etc.

One significant practical difference is that a retraité /pensioner is (almost always) aged 50 or more (depending on the country's retirement age). A 'rentier' can be of any age (an orphaned baby can be a 'rentier' - at least in Switzerland).

Jennifer Levey
Chile
Local time: 15:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32
Notes to answerer
Asker: I really liked "person of private/independent means, but went for "annuitant" considering it was for the US market. Thanks for all the help and the references


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  emiledgar: yes, a retraité is a retired person, a rentier is a person of private means; no one word expression in English.
16 mins
agree  Tony M: Yes; for example, a rentier might be involved in a life annuity sale of a house. I don't believe a one-word solution will be possible in your context
1 hr
agree  B D Finch: And with emiledgar's "a person of private means" for rentier.
2 hrs
agree  sporran
8 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Rentier/Retraité
annuitant/retiree


Explanation:
Commonest terms in the US ("pensioner" is not usual). Where not all retirees have pension benefits!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-05-03 20:42:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, anyone receiving an annuity for any reason, from any source, whether purchased directly by the annuitant or for him/her by a former employer to satisfy a pension obligation. Not exclusively military by any means.
Seems unlikely that a form would use an old-fashioned concept (rentier class) to identify a person of independent means as opposed to one literally the beneficiary of a rente.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2008-05-03 22:30:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A retiree may also be an annuitant. A deceased retiree's spouse receiving a survivor annuity benefit (to take the obvious example) will be an annuitant but need not be a retiree -- at all, or from the standpoint of the pension plan.

rkillings
United States
Local time: 12:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1140
Grading comment
Many thanks for your help.
Notes to answerer
Asker: I had excluded the term "annuitant" as it's not common in BR English. However, I 've now done a google search for retiree / annuitant and it seems to be widely used in the US. But most of the sites seem to be military-related; does it have a wider use, as in anyone receiving an annuity for whatever reason? thanks for your help

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