dans la guerre comme aux dés

English translation: In war as in dice, one is only ever subject to unseen forces

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Dans la guerre comme aux dés, l'individu ne fait jamais que l'épreuve du pouvoir-vivre que lui concède la puissance des arrière-
English translation:In war as in dice, one is only ever subject to unseen forces
Entered by: markmx
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14:25 Jan 15, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / archaeology
French term or phrase: dans la guerre comme aux dés
Dans la guerre comme aux dés, l'individu ne fait jamais que l'épreuve du pouvoir-vivre que lui concède la puissance des arrière-mondes.
MSH
Local time: 14:44
in war as in dice, one is ever the subject of hidden forces
Explanation:
is my interpretation of the 'arrière-monde' here

or: 'can only be subject to...'

or: 'is always subject to...'

or: 'is only ever subject to

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Note added at 2003-01-15 15:53:59 (GMT)
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or: \'is ever subject to...\'

or: \'can only lay one\'s destiny in the hands of a hidden force\'
Selected response from:

markmx
Local time: 15:44
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1War, like a throw of the dice, subjects one to the power of chance and of unseen forces.
Christopher Crockett
5In war as in dice playing, the individual is always
Jane Lamb-Ruiz
4In war, as in dice [gambling],
William Stein
3 +1in war as in dice, one is ever the subject of hidden forces
markmx


  

Answers


25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
In war, as in dice [gambling],


Explanation:
the power of survival evidenced by the individual is only that [power] granted him by the background-worlds.

In other words, the individual's strength in war or gambling is really due to powers bestowed upon him by the "background-world" (do you have any more context on the "arrière-monde"?)

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 07:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
In war as in dice playing, the individual is always


Explanation:
being put to the survival test by the strength of the outback.


arrière-monde=outback...

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Note added at 2003-01-15 15:37:02 (GMT)
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mettre à l\'épreuve= to be put to the test

pouvoir vivre=survival

puissance de l\'arrière-monde=strength of the outback

maybe strength of nature in the outback...

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Note added at 2003-01-15 15:38:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

one change: conferred on him by the strength of the outback.

Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 58

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: All except for "outback," which is an AlGore : "Close but no Cigar."
25 mins
  -> go look for it; that;s what it is; take a look on google

neutral  NancyLynn: agree with Christopher
1 hr
  -> behind the lines of war it could also be
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in war as in dice, one is ever the subject of hidden forces


Explanation:
is my interpretation of the 'arrière-monde' here

or: 'can only be subject to...'

or: 'is always subject to...'

or: 'is only ever subject to

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 15:53:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or: \'is ever subject to...\'

or: \'can only lay one\'s destiny in the hands of a hidden force\'

markmx
Local time: 15:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: "Hidden forces" is very close to the mark.
23 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
War, like a throw of the dice, subjects one to the power of chance and of unseen forces.


Explanation:
Building on [i.e., stealing from] Jane's solution, combined with that of markmx.

markmx's "hidden forces" is very close to the only definition I could find of this apparently rather infrequently used phrase :

"Mond invisible, secret, caché sous le monde présent..."

--Trésor de la langue francaise (closest thing to a French O.E.D.).

Quoting Michelet (1857) :

"Arriere-monde, caché sous le monde actuel et supérieur, dans les profondeurs de la vie ou dans l'obscurité de temps."

Not quite the same as "outback", I'm afraid.

is my interpretation of the 'arrière-monde' here


In war as in dice playing, the individual is always

being put to the survival test by the strength of the outback.


arrière-monde=outback...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 15:37:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

mettre à l'épreuve= to be put to the test

pouvoir vivre=survival

puissance de l'arrière-monde=strength of the outback

maybe strength of nature in the outback...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 15:38:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

one change: conferred on him by the strength of the outback.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 16:01:45 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"Karma\" is basically what\'s being intended, in modern parlance.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 16:02:53 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My apologies for including the text of other\'s answers at the bottom of my own.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-15 16:04:44 (GMT)
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My answer stops at : \"I\'m afraid.\" Everything beyond that to \"Karma\" belongs to Jane or markmx.

I *hate* it when that happens.

Perhaps a moderator can delete the section between those two?

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Note added at 2003-01-15 18:19:30 (GMT) Post-grading
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For Jane :

Yes, it does seem that there is a movement to dumb down \"arriere-monde\" to simple \"outback,\" especially for commercial reasons.

But there are still a few out there who actually know what the term means :

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2889/objet.html...

\"Anneau de l\'arrière-monde: Permet de matérialiser les esprits dans un dôme de 3 m. de rayon et ainsi les combattre avec des armes conventionnelles.\"

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1768/portrait/p_heide....

\"La métaphysique occidentale fondée par Socrate et Platon occulte le sens même de la vérité que les présocratiques avaient mise à jour et qui a été oubliée. En effet, le mythe de la Caverne relaté par Platon dans la République cassait l\'être en deux en dédoublant l\'être et l\'apparaître. Or Nietzsche a déjà montré qu\'il n\'y a pas d\'«arrière-monde» (Hinterwelt) et donc il n\'y a pas de conflit au sein de l\'être même.\"

http://www.cyberphilo.com/cit/souffrance.html

http://fr.encyclopedia.yahoo.com/articles/ni/ni_823_p0.html

\"En affirmant qu\'il y a une réalité derrière les apparences, en opposant le sensible à l\'intelligible, bref: en inventant la fiction d\'un «arrière-monde», Platon puis le christianisme auraient enfermé la pensée occidentale dans le cadre faux d\'une métaphysique et l\'auraient coupée de la vie.\"

http://www.sciencesetavenir.com/horsseries/audela/Lau-de-6.h...

La liberté est l\'au-delà du « naturel » (du caractère, du tempérament). L\'au-delà n\'est donc pas nécessairement un arrière-monde, ***un deuxième monde caché derrière le monde sensible.***

etc.

QUESTION IS : Which meaning of the phrase is intended in the present quote ??

\"Dans la guerre comme aux dés\"

\"dés\" refers to A GAME OF CHANCE, THE CHANCE ELEMENT IN HUMAN LIFE.

\"la puissance des arrière-mondes\" ***MONDES*** --plural.

Your interpretation is too tortured for me.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 09:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  NancyLynn
36 mins
  -> Thanks, NancyLynn.
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