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n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés

English translation: homoeoteleutic error??

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12:37 Dec 28, 2005
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase: n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés
Excuse me for going over the word limit on this one, but this whole paragraph has got me mightily confused. To give you a bit of context, this is referring to service of various documents by a bailiff on a bank. Some of the documents were supposed to pre-date the other documents by five working days, but in the event they were all served on the same day, although this seems to suggest that some of them were 'back-dated'.

"Dans l’espèce, la fraude et l’abus manifeste sont caractérisés, d’une part, par la notification par huissier de courriers antidatés, lesquels n’avaient jamais été adressés auparavant et n’ont sans doute pas été adressés auparavant et n’ont sans doute pas été rédigés à la date qui y est mentionnée, pour tenter de faire croire à la Banque que les conditions stipulées par les garanties appelées avaient été préalablement respectées."

What on earth is the difference between 'n’avaient jamais été adressés auparavant' and 'n’ont sans doute pas été adressés auparavant'????? Or did the person drafting this just get carried away and start writing nonsense?
Charlotte Allen
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:01
English translation:homoeoteleutic error??
Explanation:
It was good enough for mediaeval monks and is still good enough today for copy typists!

If not an error for "received" in the first part, the middle part may be unnecessary repetition of the first part confused with the third part ...
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 14:01
Grading comment
Absolutely spot on, typist's error (mine, en l'occurrence), so I do feel like a fool, although on the plus side, I've learned 2 new words!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1were never sent -v- were probably not sentMalvina Bernard
4 -1'have never been ..... and no doubt were not....'
Abdellatif Bouhid
3homoeoteleutic error??xxxBourth
1 -1never had been ... and there is no doubt that they never had been...Dirgis


Discussion entries: 24





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): -1
n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés
never had been ... and there is no doubt that they never had been...


Explanation:
that may be a way of rendering that, but it may be a legal expression and there may be more to its meaning that I am not aware of.

Dirgis
United States
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: German

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Malvina Bernard: as I say below "sans doute" in French means "probably" not "no doubt". There is an idea of slight uncertainty.
26 mins

disagree  Jennifer White: agree with Malvina
1 hr
  -> well, I said I was guessing
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés
were never sent -v- were probably not sent


Explanation:
"sans doute" in french means "probably" it has an idea of doubt even though it literally translates as "without a doubt".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 43 mins (2005-12-28 15:20:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"had not been sent before or were probably not sent before or written at the date stated".

Malvina Bernard
Local time: 13:01
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  JCEC
1 hr

neutral  Richard Benham: This really doesn't help. The two clauses can't just be joined with "et" if that is the intention, You also need to address the significance of the change of tense.
1 hr
  -> "et" in French is often translated by "or" into english"
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés
homoeoteleutic error??


Explanation:
It was good enough for mediaeval monks and is still good enough today for copy typists!

If not an error for "received" in the first part, the middle part may be unnecessary repetition of the first part confused with the third part ...

xxxBourth
Local time: 14:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 254
Grading comment
Absolutely spot on, typist's error (mine, en l'occurrence), so I do feel like a fool, although on the plus side, I've learned 2 new words!
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
n’avaient jamais été adressés -v- n’ont sans doute pas été adressés
'have never been ..... and no doubt were not....'


Explanation:
'have never been ... and no doubt were not...'

Happy new year to all.

Abdellatif Bouhid
Local time: 08:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 61

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Jennifer White: see above comments - "sans doute" means "probably"
5 hrs
  -> probably
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