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et sans que

English translation: shall not

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01:52 Aug 6, 2004
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / credit agreement
French term or phrase: et sans que
OK, it's more of the sentence than that but I was trying to avoid the "see phrase" thing.

This is a credit agreement between two banks and one client and this sentence is really eluding me:

"Les dispositions qui précèdent, ainsi que celles ci-après prévues sous l'article "Conditions d'utilisation de chaque Prêt", ne constituent que des obligations à la charge du Client auxquelles il pourra être dérogé, si les Banques ou une des Banques y consentent, et sans qu'elles ne puissent encourir une responsabilité quelconque à l'égard de quiconque, et notamment de tout garant, qui ne pourra s'en prévaloir pour se soustraire à son engagement."

So, to try my understanding of the syntax, here's a slopply nutshell version:

The provisions... are obligations for the Client which can be overridden/waived if the Bank or Banks agrees, but they cannot incur liability toward anyone, especially any guarantor, who cannot avail himself of them in order to circumvent/evade his undertaking.

As my fourth-grade teacher used to say, clear as mud.
Stephanie Mitchel
United States
Local time: 17:22
English translation:shall not
Explanation:
Not sure I'm reading this the same way as others, but I think that the "elles" here ("...et sans qu'elles ne puissent encourir une responsabilité quelconque à l'égard de quiconque,...") is in fact referring to the "dispositions" rather than to the Bank of Banks... You may no doubt see through the mud with your fuller context. A safer rendering if you cannot be sure might be to imitate the French and use "they", although a more natural English would refer directly to the subject.

A suggested rendering with a "take it or leave it" reserve !

"The foregoing provisions... are obligations for which the client bears liability and which may be waived with the consent of the Bank or Banks. The aforementioned provisions shall not give rise to any third party liability whatsoever, in particular to any guarantor, who shall not be entitled to rely upon them to free himself of his undertaking.”
Selected response from:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 23:22
Grading comment
This is very helpful Nikki.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +5, the Bank(s) incurring no liability therefore to any party whatsoeverJane Lamb-Ruiz
4 +1you got it rightxxxsarahl
3shall not
Nikki Scott-Despaigne


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +5
, the Bank(s) incurring no liability therefore to any party whatsoever


Explanation:
the et is stylistic in French. In English, it is removed..and the phrase is appended right after ''should the Bank(s) agree, said
Bank(s) incurring no liability therefore to any party whatsover"

tip: it is often better to use "should" for ''si"....or in the event...sometimes if is also OK too....but I would not use it here..

Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 610

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  roelens
3 hrs

agree  Conor McAuley: tip: it is often better to use "should" for ''si" - yep, works for me
5 hrs

agree  Kpy: and Conor's tip is a good one
5 hrs

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
6 hrs

agree  Marina Kutsnashvili
9 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
you got it right


Explanation:
and better than the source. tu as fait une belle infidèle as Yves calls them. why don't you try to break the mess down, to 3 sentences maybe ?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2004-08-06 02:34:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

let me try. ... if the banks agree. However, they will under no circumstances incur etc.; said guarantor will not be able to avail himself of such liability to try and evade his commitments.
HTH

xxxsarahl
Local time: 14:22
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 58

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Brian Gaffney
3 hrs
  -> thanks!
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1 day7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
shall not


Explanation:
Not sure I'm reading this the same way as others, but I think that the "elles" here ("...et sans qu'elles ne puissent encourir une responsabilité quelconque à l'égard de quiconque,...") is in fact referring to the "dispositions" rather than to the Bank of Banks... You may no doubt see through the mud with your fuller context. A safer rendering if you cannot be sure might be to imitate the French and use "they", although a more natural English would refer directly to the subject.

A suggested rendering with a "take it or leave it" reserve !

"The foregoing provisions... are obligations for which the client bears liability and which may be waived with the consent of the Bank or Banks. The aforementioned provisions shall not give rise to any third party liability whatsoever, in particular to any guarantor, who shall not be entitled to rely upon them to free himself of his undertaking.”

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 23:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 424
Grading comment
This is very helpful Nikki.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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