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par les présentes, entre les propriétaires des parts ci-après créées

English translation: The owners of the shares hereinbelow established ...hereby form

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10:54 Sep 5, 2001
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
French term or phrase: par les présentes, entre les propriétaires des parts ci-après créées
This again is from a legal document establishing a new company: (The sentence is really complicated!)
"Il est formé par les présentes, entre les propriétaires des parts ci-après créées, et celles qui pourraient l'être ultérieurement, une société de forme CIVILE.
bharg
India
Local time: 15:14
English translation:The owners of the shares hereinbelow established ...hereby form
Explanation:
The owners of the shares hereinbelow established or which may hereinafter come into being hereby together form a non-trading company...

Or BY these presents [older language]...
[instead of "hereby"].

Answer 1 seems to miss the idea of future shares (not parties); and "hereinafter" is ambiguous here, as between time and place. The shares are to be created later in the document - hence "hereinbelow" - not later chronologically.

Answer 2 misses the instrumental force of "hereby" - i.e. the very utterance is creating the legal entity ; and "titleholders" is not convincing British lawspeak - holders or owners is better.
An equivalent English document would be headed BETWEEN : [parties' names]
Selected response from:

Peter Freckleton
Australia
Local time: 20:44
Grading comment
Thanks for your help - I included two of your suggestions and two of Nikki's - unfortunately I can't split the points.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
na +2hereby, by and between the owners of the shares hereinafter createdBrian KEEGAN
naThe owners of the shares hereinbelow established ...hereby form
Peter Freckleton
naComments
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
na -1Explanation & coments below
Nikki Scott-Despaigne


  

Answers


18 mins peer agreement (net): +2
hereby, by and between the owners of the shares hereinafter created


Explanation:
A non-trading company is hereby established by and between the owners of the shares hereinafter created and by parties that may subsequently become owners of such shares.

It's a typical passive construction...

Brian KEEGAN
Local time: 10:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 17

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marcus Malabad: excellent Brian
29 mins

agree  Parrot: Love that legalese.
39 mins

agree  Guy Bray
1 hr

disagree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "non-trading" company implies dormant, no economic activity. This is not what is conveyed in the original.
5 hrs
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6 hrs peer agreement (net): -1
Explanation & coments below


Explanation:
« By virtue of the provisions herein, a civil partnership is formed between the titleholders of the shares hereby created and any which might be created subsequently / later. »

The use of the words « société civile » indicates that we are indeed dealing with what are referred to as partners in English law. To all intents and purposes, you are probably working on a partnership agreement but one for a partnership which has a non-commercial status, ie : liberal profession, for example, although a likely form would be an SCP (société civile professionnelle). Difficult term to translate as the very notion is inexistent under English law. I’m afraid I don’t go a bundle on the “non-trading company” as that suggests that it is dormant. I know that is not what Brian means, but I think “non-commercial” is closer and makes it clear that economic activity is to take place.

1 - www.granddictionnaire.com

Civil partnership
Syn.non-commercial association

société civile n. f.

Déf. :Société constituée par contrat entre des associés également responsables de toutes les dettes même si leurs parts dans la société sont inégales, et qui a pour objet des activités non commerciales.

Note :Cette forme de société s'applique à des activités telles que l'exploitation d'un domaine agricole, l'exercice d'une profession libérale ou d'une activité artisanale.Les associés peuvent convenir dans le contrat de partager leurs responsabilités différemment.En droit français et québécois, les sociétés de personnes se subdivisent en « sociétés civiles » et en « sociétés commerciales ». Par définition une « société civile » a pour objet des opérations civiles, par exemple la prestation de services comptables, financiers, juridiques ou médicaux. La « société civile » est une notion juridique française et québécoise qui n'a pas sa contrepartie en droit anglais.

2 - Lexique de termes juridiques, DALLOZ, 9° ed :

« Société civile : société dont l’objetconstitue une activité non commerciale et qui n’a pas adopté la forme anonyme, à responsibilité limitée, en nom colelctif ou en commandité.
La société civile peut être seulement une société de moyens. »




Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 10:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4431

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Peter Freckleton: needs "hereby" and "titleholders" should be "owners" or "holders"
1 hr
  -> See below
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7 hrs
The owners of the shares hereinbelow established ...hereby form


Explanation:
The owners of the shares hereinbelow established or which may hereinafter come into being hereby together form a non-trading company...

Or BY these presents [older language]...
[instead of "hereby"].

Answer 1 seems to miss the idea of future shares (not parties); and "hereinafter" is ambiguous here, as between time and place. The shares are to be created later in the document - hence "hereinbelow" - not later chronologically.

Answer 2 misses the instrumental force of "hereby" - i.e. the very utterance is creating the legal entity ; and "titleholders" is not convincing British lawspeak - holders or owners is better.
An equivalent English document would be headed BETWEEN : [parties' names]

Peter Freckleton
Australia
Local time: 20:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 722
Grading comment
Thanks for your help - I included two of your suggestions and two of Nikki's - unfortunately I can't split the points.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

15 hrs
Comments


Explanation:
With reference to Peter Freckleton's answer and comments :

AGREE : I agree with you as to the ambiguity with « ultérieurement ». In time or within the document ?. I had not considered the second possibility. That point needs to be cleared up before it can be translated correctly.

AGREE : « titleholders » has a ring of beauty contests and sporting prowess. I go with your « holders », in preference to owners.

RESERVES : I still have reserves about « no-trading » which to me with my English training is ambiguous, tending to suggest lack of business activity – of any sort, which is of course, not what the French means.

DISAGREE : Yes, « hereby » is important to covey the essence of meaning here. I decided that the position « hereby » in my version gave it sufficient weight to make it clear what was going on, but that it avoided overloading the sentence with « hereins, herebys » etc.

DISAGREE : I don’t have vast legal expereince but do have some (UK) in civil litigation. I suspect that your experience is probably much greater, and would appear to be on-going. However, I am certain that « hereinafter » is much more common than « hereinbelow », but then I can only speak from a UK point of view. Whilst wary of basing a sort of ‘reliability factor’ on the number of hits from a web wearch, « hereinbelow » gets roughly 350, « hereinafter » in excess of 17,000. I would not hesitate to opt for « hereinafter » for UK contexts at least.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 10:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4431
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