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Caple-ne-Ferne

English translation: Alder Chapel

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19:01 Oct 12, 2004
French to English translations [PRO]
Linguistics
French term or phrase: Caple-ne-Ferne
Le nom d'une propriété à Hastings. Vient apparemment du nom d'un aristocrate français/normand. Est-ce que quelqu'un sait ce que ce nom signifie?
Dominique Cook
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:50
English translation:Alder Chapel
Explanation:
First, just to point out that Caple LE Ferne is indeed a town near Folkestone, and that Caple NE Ferne is the name of property in St Leonards, near Hastings.

As for the meaning, lots of possibilities, though I think it is fairly certain that "Caple" refers to "chapel".

Few of the ancient surnames of England have left their mark so vividly on the pages of time as Caplice. Of Norman origin, the history of this family name entwines itself throughout the fabric of the ancient chronicles of England.

Examination of ancient manuscript reproductions such as the Domesday Book (compiled in 1086 by William the Conqueror), the Ragman Rolls, the Wace poem, the Honour Roll of the Battel Abbey, the Curia Regis, Pipe Rolls, the Falaise Roll, tax records, baptismals, family genealogies, local parish and church records reveals the first record of the name Caplice was found in Herefordshire where they were seated from very early times and were granted lands by Duke William of Normandy, their leige Lord, for their distinguished assistance at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 A.D.

Through the ages, your name, Caplice, occurred in many references with different spellings. Capel, Capell, Caple, Cappel, Keppel, and these changes in spelling occurred, even between father and son. Three major events of a person's life, birth, marriage, and death were recorded. Frequently, all were different, all three spellings relating to the same person.

The surname Caplice is believed to be of Norman origin, a race commonly but mistakenly assumed to be of French origin. More accurately they were of Viking origin. The Vikings landed in the Orkneys and Northern Scotland about the year 870 A.D., under their King, Stirgud the Stout. Thorfinn Rollo, his descendant, scion of an explorer clan who may well have visited North America, landed in northern France about the year 940 A.D. The French King, Charles the Simple, after Rollo laid siege to Paris, finally conceded defeat and granted northern France to Rollo. Rollo became the first Duke of Normandy, the territory of the north men. Rollo married Charles' daughter and became a convert to Christianity. Descended from Rollo was Duke William of Normandy who invaded England in 1066 and was victorious over the Saxon King Harold at Hastings in 1066 A.D.

William granted his Norman nobles much of the land of England for their assistance at the Battle of Hastings. Those estates still held by these families in 1086 were granted in perpetuity, for ever, hence, the name of the census was called the Domesday Book. Amongst these Normans a noble is believed to have been your distant ancestor. After careful analysis the researchers found that the first evidence of your surname was found in Herefordshire where they were recorded as a family of great antiquity seated at How Capel with manor and estates in that shire. They were originally from La Chapelle in Normandy. They later branched to Gloucestershire about the 13th century, and to Allerton near Glastonbury in Somerset. The notorious Earl of Essex (a Capel) who had an affair with the first Queen Elizabeth, was descended from a Lord Mayor of London. Family seats were at How Capel and Stroud, Presbury, and The Grove in Gloucestershire, as well as Kent. Notable amongst the family at this time was Earl of Essex.

Please E-Mail me if you have an interest in, or have any information on the Caplice family

[http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/caplice/caphist.htm]

The English surnames of Capel and Capell are
derived from the Norman surname of deCapelle,
as first recorded for Sir Richard deCapelle,
a Norman knight with fief in County Hereford.
He bore arms at Dunstable Tournament of 1308,
"argent chevron gules among three torteaux,"
suggesting he was knighted before this time.
His father was named by Henry III (1216-1272)
to his viceroy as Lord Justice over Ireland.
His ancestors immigrated with the Conqueror,
according to most noble peerages of England.
The Norman surnames deCapelle and LaChapelle
referred to "one who is of the manor house,"
implying the nobility of this line in France.

Caple(s)later evolved as a phonetic variant,
often interchanged in Capel and Capell lines,
as well as forming inception of this surname.
Since Norman deCapelle antecedents inhabited
many other areas of Great Britain and Europe,
phonetic and lingual variants were developed.
Despite these phonetic and lingual variants,
their inception is from the Norman deCapelle
and nobility preceding William the Conqueror.
[http://www.jenforum.net/caples/messages/182.html]

As for the Ferne bit, it could be from the old French meaning "alder tree" or from the English "fern".

Are you called FEARN?
Recently two readers approached the "Peak Advertiser" seeking information about "Fearn". Although the two inquiries were separate, it was not altogether a surprising coincidence because "Fearn" is very much a Derbyshire name. Variations in spelling are not necessarily significant and "Fern" is also quite well represented locally although it is more strongly associated with the West Riding. Even if one leaves out forms of the surname derived from localities such as "Fernley" and "Ferneyhough" there still remain over a dozen variations on the basic word "Fern". The most exceptional formation is "Vern" or "Verne". However, bearers of the latter cannot claim undisputed identity with Jules Verne (1828-1905), the writer of popular scientific romances. His name is derived from the French "vergne" which refers to the alder tree and as such has a corresponding Scots surname in "Fernie". These two names - "Fern" and "Fernie" need separating out.
The Scots form (sometimes "Fairnie") is based on a place-name in the county of Fife, lying about 3 miles west of Cupar. In its Gaelic form it appears as "fearnach" which can be interpreted as "the place of the alder trees". The alder was once widely grown and coppiced for its many commercial uses and this is probably the source of the name. The earliest reference is to "William de Ferney" (1390). This spelling persists until 1517 and then changes to "Fernie".
Readers with Irish connections might possibly have derived their surname (Fern) as a varient of "Fearon". This comes from the old Irish word "fear" meaning "a man". It centres on County Louth.
In the case of names based on "Fern" there seems to be some uncertainty as to how our medieval ancestors applied the term. There is evidence that the distinction between ferns and bracken was of little consequence. It is recorded that in the north of England all varieties of fern were called "bracken". It is certainly significant that few of the surnames derived from "bracken" can, with any certainty, be identified with that plant. It is a Gaelic word and signifies "freckled" or "spotted".
Limiting comments to the expression "fern", it can be shown that it was most certainly well established in Old English. A dictionary compiled around the year 798 includes "fearn" and supplies the Latin equivalent as "filix". The word itself can ultimately be traced to Sanskrit, a language spoken in Central Asia about 2000 B.C. and appearing as "parna". In the transition of words from older languages there are regular alterations of letters. In this case "p-" frequently changes to "f-" and so "parna" modified to "farna" and thence to "fern". The most familiar example is probably how "pater" became "father". It is known that the Sanskrit "parna" meant "feather" and how it came to be used in connection with the feathery fronds of the plant needs no elaboration. In passing it might be noted that when "pa-" passed into Greek, the initial "p-" became "pt-" which converted "parna" into (eventually) "pteros" which meant "feather" or "wing" (hence "helicopter" or "revolving wings").
The fact that the presence of ferns in abundance was something of which our predecessors took notice is demonstrated in the large number of place names incorporating the word. There are some 120 major locations based on this element of which "Farnah" (near Belper) and "Farley" (Darley Dale) are examples from our own county. An exceptional spelling is to be found in Hampshire by way of "Vernham" (9 miles north of Andover). In the 13th century it was actually written as "Ferneham", that is, "The settlement amidst the Ferns".
So families bearing one of the dozen or so variations on the name "Fern" can take it that their original namesake was identified as "He whose dwelling is among the ferns". Since the plants seem to favour hollows and dells, the name "Ferneyhough" is not uncommon and signifies "One who lives in the ferny hollow".
Very likely, however, many of the original bearers of the name simply adopted it or were given it to identify them with the estate on which they worked. Many country houses and large establishments involved the designation "Fern" such as "Ferney Hall" near Ludlow. Another possible example lies in the case of "Fern House" which is near Hartington. It did however take its name from the Fern family and it is known that Richard Ferne was in occupation in 1482. The earliest record is to a "John de la Ferne" in 1275 (Worcester) and then to "Joceus de Ferne" in 1296 in Sussex.
Although the name was listed in the survey of 1890 as special to this county, there are no personalities mentioned in the guides and even the Standard Biographical references contain no allusions to "head-liners". A few older readers might recall "The History of a Family of Cats" which was written by a Miss Frances Fern, but beyond deducing that she was a 19th century authoress, nothing else is known.
[http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/NamesPersonal/Fearn.htm...]

Isn't it a small world? My neighbour is a Capelle and my own family are descendants of the De Laceys, originally from the village of Lassy about 30 km from Falaise, birthplace of William the Conqueror. Several de Lassy brothers accompanied Bill on his invasion and were rewarded with territories in England. I believe it was a de Lacey who governed Nottingham Castle around the time of Robin of Locksley, another who governed (and lost) Château Gaillard on the Seine, in Normandy (not his fault but that of King John who didn't like the smell from the latrines and had a hole made in the wall). Like the Capels, apparently, they later made themselves unpopular in Ireland.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 34 mins (2004-10-12 22:35:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that confidence level needs to be taken down a notch or two. None of this is anything but hearsay.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 41 mins (2004-10-13 00:43:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually I suspect the guy who named the house was a fan of St Exupéry and named it in honour of him and the French trans-Sahara postal service of the early days: anagrammatically speaking, between crashes a pilot on that run was what one might call a \"fennec leaper\".
Selected response from:

xxxBourth
Local time: 21:50
Grading comment
Thanks a bunch for all this.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1Alder Chapel
xxxBourth
3 +1Capel-le-Ferne, Kent, England
Trada inc.
3Chapel in/near something
Richard Nice
2 -1best I could do: caple is an old horse/nag or a kind of stone
writeaway


  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Capel-le-Ferne, Kent, England


Explanation:
Capel is a family name; chapelle à la fougère, dans le genre

Trada inc.
Canada
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Nice: It is now a family name - but many of those are from placenames, and many of those from churches; and, yes, near Dover!
28 mins

agree  xxxBourth: Fern Chapel is definitely an option (see below).
3 hrs
  -> thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -1
best I could do: caple is an old horse/nag or a kind of stone


Explanation:
2 entries found for caple.

caple

Capel \Ca"pel\ (k[=a]"p[e^]l), Caple \Ca"ple\ (-p'l), n. [Icel. kapall; cf. L. caballus.] A horse; a nag. [Obs.] --Chaucer. Holland.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

caple

\Ca"ple\, n. See Capel.



2 entries found for capel.

capel

\Ca"pel\ (k[=a]"p[e^]l), Caple \Ca"ple\ (-p'l), n. [Icel. kapall; cf. L. caballus.] A horse; a nag. [Obs.] --Chaucer. Holland.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

capel

\Ca"pel\ (k[=a]"p[e^]l), n. (Mining) A composite stone (quartz, schorl, and hornblende) in the walls of tin and copper lodes.


    Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=caple&r=67
writeaway
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Richard Nice: We don't get many placenames out of those, do we? PS Norman...?
8 mins
  -> they just materialise out of the blue do they? Is the origin of the name Old English or Middle English?/place names can stem from anything at all. since when does the origin have to make perfect orderly sense? :-)
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Chapel in/near something


Explanation:
I am no expert on Norman French, bbut this the ring of "chapel" about it. Close to Dover is Capel-le-Ferne, where "le" may be "lès".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 27 mins (2004-10-12 20:28:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

No space below, so, in reply to writeaway: what is it that does or does not come out of the blue? Placenames involving old horses? Rather more come from churches, in GB at least.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 3 mins (2004-10-12 22:04:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/places.html

Richard Nice
Germany
Local time: 21:50
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: chapel sounds likely but surprises abound in this field. with no refs your guess is as good as the next one, but it is a guess
1 hr
  -> True, and I just found Deadhorse, Alaska - I think you win this one!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Alder Chapel


Explanation:
First, just to point out that Caple LE Ferne is indeed a town near Folkestone, and that Caple NE Ferne is the name of property in St Leonards, near Hastings.

As for the meaning, lots of possibilities, though I think it is fairly certain that "Caple" refers to "chapel".

Few of the ancient surnames of England have left their mark so vividly on the pages of time as Caplice. Of Norman origin, the history of this family name entwines itself throughout the fabric of the ancient chronicles of England.

Examination of ancient manuscript reproductions such as the Domesday Book (compiled in 1086 by William the Conqueror), the Ragman Rolls, the Wace poem, the Honour Roll of the Battel Abbey, the Curia Regis, Pipe Rolls, the Falaise Roll, tax records, baptismals, family genealogies, local parish and church records reveals the first record of the name Caplice was found in Herefordshire where they were seated from very early times and were granted lands by Duke William of Normandy, their leige Lord, for their distinguished assistance at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 A.D.

Through the ages, your name, Caplice, occurred in many references with different spellings. Capel, Capell, Caple, Cappel, Keppel, and these changes in spelling occurred, even between father and son. Three major events of a person's life, birth, marriage, and death were recorded. Frequently, all were different, all three spellings relating to the same person.

The surname Caplice is believed to be of Norman origin, a race commonly but mistakenly assumed to be of French origin. More accurately they were of Viking origin. The Vikings landed in the Orkneys and Northern Scotland about the year 870 A.D., under their King, Stirgud the Stout. Thorfinn Rollo, his descendant, scion of an explorer clan who may well have visited North America, landed in northern France about the year 940 A.D. The French King, Charles the Simple, after Rollo laid siege to Paris, finally conceded defeat and granted northern France to Rollo. Rollo became the first Duke of Normandy, the territory of the north men. Rollo married Charles' daughter and became a convert to Christianity. Descended from Rollo was Duke William of Normandy who invaded England in 1066 and was victorious over the Saxon King Harold at Hastings in 1066 A.D.

William granted his Norman nobles much of the land of England for their assistance at the Battle of Hastings. Those estates still held by these families in 1086 were granted in perpetuity, for ever, hence, the name of the census was called the Domesday Book. Amongst these Normans a noble is believed to have been your distant ancestor. After careful analysis the researchers found that the first evidence of your surname was found in Herefordshire where they were recorded as a family of great antiquity seated at How Capel with manor and estates in that shire. They were originally from La Chapelle in Normandy. They later branched to Gloucestershire about the 13th century, and to Allerton near Glastonbury in Somerset. The notorious Earl of Essex (a Capel) who had an affair with the first Queen Elizabeth, was descended from a Lord Mayor of London. Family seats were at How Capel and Stroud, Presbury, and The Grove in Gloucestershire, as well as Kent. Notable amongst the family at this time was Earl of Essex.

Please E-Mail me if you have an interest in, or have any information on the Caplice family

[http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/caplice/caphist.htm]

The English surnames of Capel and Capell are
derived from the Norman surname of deCapelle,
as first recorded for Sir Richard deCapelle,
a Norman knight with fief in County Hereford.
He bore arms at Dunstable Tournament of 1308,
"argent chevron gules among three torteaux,"
suggesting he was knighted before this time.
His father was named by Henry III (1216-1272)
to his viceroy as Lord Justice over Ireland.
His ancestors immigrated with the Conqueror,
according to most noble peerages of England.
The Norman surnames deCapelle and LaChapelle
referred to "one who is of the manor house,"
implying the nobility of this line in France.

Caple(s)later evolved as a phonetic variant,
often interchanged in Capel and Capell lines,
as well as forming inception of this surname.
Since Norman deCapelle antecedents inhabited
many other areas of Great Britain and Europe,
phonetic and lingual variants were developed.
Despite these phonetic and lingual variants,
their inception is from the Norman deCapelle
and nobility preceding William the Conqueror.
[http://www.jenforum.net/caples/messages/182.html]

As for the Ferne bit, it could be from the old French meaning "alder tree" or from the English "fern".

Are you called FEARN?
Recently two readers approached the "Peak Advertiser" seeking information about "Fearn". Although the two inquiries were separate, it was not altogether a surprising coincidence because "Fearn" is very much a Derbyshire name. Variations in spelling are not necessarily significant and "Fern" is also quite well represented locally although it is more strongly associated with the West Riding. Even if one leaves out forms of the surname derived from localities such as "Fernley" and "Ferneyhough" there still remain over a dozen variations on the basic word "Fern". The most exceptional formation is "Vern" or "Verne". However, bearers of the latter cannot claim undisputed identity with Jules Verne (1828-1905), the writer of popular scientific romances. His name is derived from the French "vergne" which refers to the alder tree and as such has a corresponding Scots surname in "Fernie". These two names - "Fern" and "Fernie" need separating out.
The Scots form (sometimes "Fairnie") is based on a place-name in the county of Fife, lying about 3 miles west of Cupar. In its Gaelic form it appears as "fearnach" which can be interpreted as "the place of the alder trees". The alder was once widely grown and coppiced for its many commercial uses and this is probably the source of the name. The earliest reference is to "William de Ferney" (1390). This spelling persists until 1517 and then changes to "Fernie".
Readers with Irish connections might possibly have derived their surname (Fern) as a varient of "Fearon". This comes from the old Irish word "fear" meaning "a man". It centres on County Louth.
In the case of names based on "Fern" there seems to be some uncertainty as to how our medieval ancestors applied the term. There is evidence that the distinction between ferns and bracken was of little consequence. It is recorded that in the north of England all varieties of fern were called "bracken". It is certainly significant that few of the surnames derived from "bracken" can, with any certainty, be identified with that plant. It is a Gaelic word and signifies "freckled" or "spotted".
Limiting comments to the expression "fern", it can be shown that it was most certainly well established in Old English. A dictionary compiled around the year 798 includes "fearn" and supplies the Latin equivalent as "filix". The word itself can ultimately be traced to Sanskrit, a language spoken in Central Asia about 2000 B.C. and appearing as "parna". In the transition of words from older languages there are regular alterations of letters. In this case "p-" frequently changes to "f-" and so "parna" modified to "farna" and thence to "fern". The most familiar example is probably how "pater" became "father". It is known that the Sanskrit "parna" meant "feather" and how it came to be used in connection with the feathery fronds of the plant needs no elaboration. In passing it might be noted that when "pa-" passed into Greek, the initial "p-" became "pt-" which converted "parna" into (eventually) "pteros" which meant "feather" or "wing" (hence "helicopter" or "revolving wings").
The fact that the presence of ferns in abundance was something of which our predecessors took notice is demonstrated in the large number of place names incorporating the word. There are some 120 major locations based on this element of which "Farnah" (near Belper) and "Farley" (Darley Dale) are examples from our own county. An exceptional spelling is to be found in Hampshire by way of "Vernham" (9 miles north of Andover). In the 13th century it was actually written as "Ferneham", that is, "The settlement amidst the Ferns".
So families bearing one of the dozen or so variations on the name "Fern" can take it that their original namesake was identified as "He whose dwelling is among the ferns". Since the plants seem to favour hollows and dells, the name "Ferneyhough" is not uncommon and signifies "One who lives in the ferny hollow".
Very likely, however, many of the original bearers of the name simply adopted it or were given it to identify them with the estate on which they worked. Many country houses and large establishments involved the designation "Fern" such as "Ferney Hall" near Ludlow. Another possible example lies in the case of "Fern House" which is near Hartington. It did however take its name from the Fern family and it is known that Richard Ferne was in occupation in 1482. The earliest record is to a "John de la Ferne" in 1275 (Worcester) and then to "Joceus de Ferne" in 1296 in Sussex.
Although the name was listed in the survey of 1890 as special to this county, there are no personalities mentioned in the guides and even the Standard Biographical references contain no allusions to "head-liners". A few older readers might recall "The History of a Family of Cats" which was written by a Miss Frances Fern, but beyond deducing that she was a 19th century authoress, nothing else is known.
[http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/NamesPersonal/Fearn.htm...]

Isn't it a small world? My neighbour is a Capelle and my own family are descendants of the De Laceys, originally from the village of Lassy about 30 km from Falaise, birthplace of William the Conqueror. Several de Lassy brothers accompanied Bill on his invasion and were rewarded with territories in England. I believe it was a de Lacey who governed Nottingham Castle around the time of Robin of Locksley, another who governed (and lost) Château Gaillard on the Seine, in Normandy (not his fault but that of King John who didn't like the smell from the latrines and had a hole made in the wall). Like the Capels, apparently, they later made themselves unpopular in Ireland.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 34 mins (2004-10-12 22:35:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, that confidence level needs to be taken down a notch or two. None of this is anything but hearsay.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 41 mins (2004-10-13 00:43:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually I suspect the guy who named the house was a fan of St Exupéry and named it in honour of him and the French trans-Sahara postal service of the early days: anagrammatically speaking, between crashes a pilot on that run was what one might call a \"fennec leaper\".

xxxBourth
Local time: 21:50
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44
Grading comment
Thanks a bunch for all this.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: so much for the chapel certainty :-)
1 hr
  -> Yes, chapel is a certainty, boyo!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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