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professions libérales and Artisans

English translation: professionals and the self-employed

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06:43 Aug 16, 2001
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Marketing
French term or phrase: professions libérales and Artisans
These are two target markets which a computer resseller sells to. I can't imagine they would sell to crafts people! Please help

Regs

Allister
allister
English translation:professionals and the self-employed
Explanation:
Just a guess based on the following:

artisan: (travailleur) artisan, (self-employed) craftsman; il est artisan menuisier he's a self-employed carpenter ou joiner;

Your context should tell you whether this sounds reasonable (or not!)

HTH

Mary
Selected response from:

Mary Worby
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:30
Grading comment
thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
na +1Comment
CLS Lexi-tech
na +1Comment
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
na +1craftsmen and the self-employedmckinnc
na +1professionals and the self-employed
Mary Worby
na -1"small business"?
CLS Lexi-tech


  

Answers


2 mins peer agreement (net): +1
professionals and the self-employed


Explanation:
Just a guess based on the following:

artisan: (travailleur) artisan, (self-employed) craftsman; il est artisan menuisier he's a self-employed carpenter ou joiner;

Your context should tell you whether this sounds reasonable (or not!)

HTH

Mary


    Oxford-Hachette
Mary Worby
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:30
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 484
Grading comment
thanks

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: members of the liberal professions and self-employed tradesmen
1 hr
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8 mins peer agreement (net): -1
"small business"?


Explanation:
I have a feeling that it means business on a small scale, small business.
We have had a discussion of the same term in Italian, which is very difficult to translate in English, and beside meaning "craftsman" it also means "small business"

regards

paola l m


CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 23:30
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 162

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: No, that would be PME (petites & moyennes entreprises). Many trademen are of course incl in PME description
1 hr
  -> Petites, mais pas moyennes. Ciao Paola
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16 mins peer agreement (net): +1
craftsmen and the self-employed


Explanation:
Sorry to butt in but I have found the usage of "artisans" to apply mostly to craftsmen and not to professionals. A typical artisan might be carpentry, glass-making etc. You do even get such a think as an "artisan boulanger" strangely enough.

mckinnc
Local time: 05:30
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 922

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Nohting strange about "artisan boulanger" - means he's learnt a trade and makes a living from it.
1 hr
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1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Comment


Explanation:
The liberal professions are loosley those who earn their living from the provision of services which are essentially intellectual in nature : lawyers, translators.... There is no commercial tangible product : here the taxman refers to prof libs as producing BNC (bénéfices non-commericaux).

An "artisan" in the contemporary French meaning of the word is someone who is self-employed, usually, and who works from a trade : plumber, carpenter, electrician etc. In the minds of the European non-French speaking world, the word conjures up images of "artisanat", handicrafts and the like. An 'artisan is someone who works using his hands - has to use his head too to keep his business going of course! But do you see what I mean?

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 05:30
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4431

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  CLS Lexi-tech: See below. Ciao
2 hrs
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4 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Comment


Explanation:
Artisan
Déf. :
Personne qui dans le cours de ses affaires, seule, en équipe ou en société, pour son propre compte et sans travailleur à son service, exécute un travail.


Note :
La définition du terme « artisan » peut varier légèrement d'un pays à l'autre. Le ministère de la Justice du Québec précise dans la Loi sur les accidents du travail, 1981, art. 83, que l'artisan travaille « sans travailleur à son service », alors que les sources françaises indiquent que l'artisan peut travailler avec des membres de sa famille, des compagnons, des employés ou des apprentis dont le nombre ne dépasse pas 5 à 10, selon le pays.
En France, la définition fiscale de l'artisan est très étroite. Aux États-Unis, la notion d'artisanat n'est pas distinguée de celle de « petite entreprise ». En Allemagne, la définition de l'artisan ne comporte aucune limitation numérique. En Italie, la définition de l'artisan est confondue avec celle de la petite industrie.

Grand dictionnaire terminologique

L'artisanat occupe une position particulière dans l'économie française car il est défini à la fois par un critère de taille et par l'appartenance à des secteurs d'activité très précis : il est transversal aux secteurs économiques que sont l'industrie, le commerce, les services et le bâtiment...Le statut juridique des personnes immatriculées au Répertoire des métiers a beaucoup évolué ces dernières années, mais les personnes physiques restent majoritaires (66 %) tandis que les sociétés sont minoritaires (SARL : 30 %, SA : 2 %, autres sociétés : 0,5 %). En 1997, d'après la répartition des radiations du Répertoire des métiers, les défaillances (1) (19 189) ont représenté un quart des cessations d'activité (72 906). En moyenne, une défaillance artisanale a supprimé trois emplois.


Artisan is in this document "entreprise artisanale", "l'entrepreneur individuel"

This is why I think "self-employed" is problematic because it refers to employment only for the self, whereas an artisan can very well be a small business.

It is a very trick term to translate and I find this discussion very interesting.

Cheers
Paola L M




CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 23:30
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 162

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes, adn you're right of course about small businesses! S-employed is problematic here. It basically means "tradesman".
17 mins
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