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pendant 8/15 jours

English translation: for 8 or 15 days

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:pendant 8/15 jours
English translation:for 8 or 15 days
Entered by: myrden
Options:
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10:38 Nov 15, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical (general)
French term or phrase: pendant 8/15 jours
My question is a general one when translating medical documents from French into English. When you see an expression such as "pendant 8 jours", as in "Le patient bénéficie d'une cure d'HBPM par Innohep curatif pendant 8 jours", do you translate it as a week or 8 days. I know that "8/15 jours" in everyday parlance means "a week/fortnight", but in the world of medicine should it still be translated this way or are we to take it that the doctor really means that the medication was given for 8/15 days?
Elizabeth Ballance
Local time: 14:11
8 or 15 days
Explanation:
My doctor often gives me treatment for a week or 10 days, sometimes 12. So would she write 8 days, I would take it for 8 days, not 7
Selected response from:

myrden
France
Local time: 15:11
Grading comment
Many thanks for your assistance with this. It confirms that we should translate medical texts literally in this context ie. "8 jours" as "8 days" (not "a week" or "7 days") and "15 jours" as "15 days" (not " a fortnight" or "14 days"). It has been an interesting debate, though I regret that some answerers have misunderstood my question! Thanks myrden!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +58 or 15 daysmyrden
5 +2for a minimum of 8 days and up to a maximum of 15 days
Drmanu49
5for 7 to 14 days (see below)xxx::::::::::
3 +1for one to two weeks
David Hollywood
4 -3over a period of 8 to 15 daysEllen Kraus
Summary of reference entries provided
liz askew

Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
for one to two weeks


Explanation:
I would say ...

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Note added at 2 mins (2008-11-15 10:40:49 GMT)
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in English I would avoid anything like 8/15 days as it just doesn't sound right ...

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Note added at 6 mins (2008-11-15 10:44:33 GMT)
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even in a medical context I think it just means "for 1 to 2 weeks"

David Hollywood
Local time: 10:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 22
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for your thoughts, David.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  RProsser
3 mins
  -> thanks RProsser :)

agree  Alison Hill Campbell
4 mins
  -> thanks Alison :)

neutral  Tony M: In terms of treatment durations, I think it is unwise for the translator to 'interfere' in this way; in the more colloquial situation of "come and see me again in about a week", I would agree with this tactic.
35 mins
  -> thanks Tony and I'm not a medical man and I think you're probably right but hard for me to jump over what I really see as "1 to 2 weeks"

disagree  xxx::::::::::: no we don't talk of 'weeks' except for convalescence or stays in hospital
48 mins
  -> ok Dr. D and nice to hear from someone in the field :) and that's why I only put CL 3 :)

agree  Frederique Taylor
51 mins
  -> thanks Frederique :)

disagree  liz askew: Same here, doctors prescribe in number of days.
4 hrs
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
8 or 15 days


Explanation:
My doctor often gives me treatment for a week or 10 days, sometimes 12. So would she write 8 days, I would take it for 8 days, not 7

myrden
France
Local time: 15:11
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Many thanks for your assistance with this. It confirms that we should translate medical texts literally in this context ie. "8 jours" as "8 days" (not "a week" or "7 days") and "15 jours" as "15 days" (not " a fortnight" or "14 days"). It has been an interesting debate, though I regret that some answerers have misunderstood my question! Thanks myrden!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  liz askew
0 min
  -> Thanks Liz

agree  Tony M: With things like courses of antibiotics, the exact number of days is often specified, so even though we know the colloquial meanings, I feel it's not up to us to change the dr's instructions; if it's just 'see me again in a week', it's different
24 mins
  -> Thanks Tony

agree  xxx::::::::::: Probably the best option here
41 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  GILOU: definitely
22 hrs
  -> Merci Gilles

agree  silviantonia: Nothing else possible, even if it 'means' a week or a fortnight.
2 days12 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
over a period of 8 to 15 days


Explanation:

would be my suggestion

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 15:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 52
Notes to answerer
Asker: Perhaps I didn't make myself very clear. I did mean "or", as my question refers to when you come across the words "8 jours" or "15 jours" in a medical context.

Asker: Thanks for your thoughts Ellen.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  liz askew: In anybody's book "/" = or, doesn't it?? "-" = "to"
4 mins

disagree  Tony M: You seem not to have read the question thoroughly enough to fully understand what Asker is actually querying
23 mins

disagree  xxx::::::::::: In the UK/USA doctors do NOT use the French 8/15 day protocol but the 7/14 day one for any lengths of treatment
39 mins
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49 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
for 7 to 14 days (see below)


Explanation:
In the UK/USA doctors do NOT use the French 8/15 day protocol but the 7/14 day one for any lengths of treatment; you won't find '8 to 15 day treatment' anywhere on the Internet; but for 7 to 14 days 19 million hits :

: antibiotic treatment for 7-14 days reduces treatment ...Review: antibiotic treatment for 7–14 days reduces treatment failure in children with urinary tract infection. Keren R, Chan E.A meta-analysis of randomized ...
ebn.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/6/1/15 - Pages similaires - À noter
de J Daniels - 2003 - Cité 1 fois - Autres articles - Les 2 versions
Clinical topic - Candida - female genital...Treatment failure ... - [ Traduire cette page ]Treatment failure-intravaginal antifungals (6-14 days) · Treatment failure- intravaginal combipacks (7-14 days) · Treatment failure-oral therapy (7 days) ...
cks.library.nhs.uk/candida_female_genital/.../treatment_failure_intravaginal_antifungals_6_14_days - 96k - En cache - Pages similaires - À noter
Treatment regimens for H pylori - [ Traduire cette page ]Bismuth 525 mg, metronidazole 500 mg, tetracycline 500 mg all four times daily with a PPI twice daily for 7-14 days, Can be used as 1st line treatment (7-14 ...
www.uptodate.com/online/content/image.do?imageKey...Treatme... - 10k - En cache - Pages similaires - À noter
A Study of Avelox® for Treatment of Elderly Patients With ... - [ Traduire cette page ]22 Apr 2008 ... Levaquin® for the treatment of Community Acquired Pneumonia (CAP) in ... Mortality attributable to pneumonia [ Time Frame: 7-14 days ...
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00665327 - 38k - En cache - Pages similaires - À noter
Plasma Drug Concentrations and Virologic Evaluations after ... - [ Traduire cette page ]Paediatric European Network for Treatment of AIDS II Study Group, INCONNU ... and treatment with the remaining drugs was continued for 7-14 days, ...
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20309471 - Pages similaires - À noter
[PDF] These guidelines for the treatment of patients with STDs reflect ... - [ Traduire cette page ]Format de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Version HTML
2006 SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES TREATMENT GUIDELINES. These guidelines for the treatment of patients with .... 1% cream 5 g intravaginally for 7-14 days ...
www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/STD/Pub/SummarySTDTXGuidelines06.pdf - Pages similaires - À noter


xxx::::::::::
Iraq
Local time: 15:11
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 296
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for your thoughts, Dr Jones.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Diane de Cicco: I agree. The French is not logical in this respect. When you say "15 jours", everybody knows, that you mean "two weeks", because it is used to mean very often "le 15ème jours". The use of "pendant 15 jours" is an unfortunate distortion.
13 mins

neutral  Tony M: If the sense is 'about a week', then that's fair enough; but are we really saying that Drs. prescribe arbitrarily a 7-or 8-d treatment for same condition / same drug, depending on where you live? Should the translator be the one to decide?
1 hr
  -> it's not a question of who should decide ; it's just two different protocols ; the actual treatment period depends on the doctor and depends on the case and patient improvement (or not)

disagree  Drmanu49: You can not change the n° of day for a translation, whatever the reason. A French protocol remains a French protocol.
3 hrs
  -> A French protocol remains a French protocol=from that point of view (only) you're right

disagree  liz askew: I think you need to quote some direct refs regarding Heparin treatment, rather than antibiotic treatment.//I disagree entirely. My refs show there is no standard protocol re HBPM.
3 hrs
  -> the fact it's heprain treatment doesn't make any difference whatsoever

agree  swanda
13 hrs
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59 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
for a minimum of 8 days and up to a maximum of 15 days


Explanation:
Direct answer from infectious disease department.

as in
The LMWH was administered for up to 15. days. No statistically significant differences were seen. between the LMWHs in the outcomes evaluated (DVT, ...
www.keele.ac.uk/schools/pharm/MTRAC/ProductInfo/verdicts/L/...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2008-11-15 14:32:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To answer Tony and Elizabeth, the question was " pendant 8/15 jours" and we gave the answer to that question.
If the question is "pendant 8 jours" then the only possible answer is "for 8 days". The translator is simply not allowed to change the n° of days whatever the reason.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2008-11-15 14:33:08 GMT)
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And "week" is never used.

Drmanu49
France
Local time: 15:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4009
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for your thoughts, Drmanu49.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: But Manu, Elizabeth was really trying to ask about the idea of 8 days or 15 days, not 'a period between 8 and 15 days'. / Then you BOTH just seem to have misread the question! "...an expression such as 'pendant 8 jours'..."
1 hr
  -> Tony I read the question well enough and so did Pr JPS. He specifically rejected "week" and gave the answer for "HBPM par Innohep curatif".

agree  xxxLionel_M: It's quite obvious in medicine ! the rest is literature IMHO (thks Daniel !)
1 hr
  -> Thank you Lionel.

agree  liz askew
3 hrs
  -> Thank you Liz.

neutral  GILOU: Tony is right in the reading of the question...
21 hrs
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Reference comments


9 mins
Reference

Reference information:
#
Delayed hypersensitivity at the injection sites of a low-molecular ...
after initiation of treatment (3 to 15 days) (8). 1 ... low-molecular-weight heparin are frequent (4, 8,. 15, 23-25). However, some patients can tolerate ...
www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0536.1996.... - Similar pages
by A Moreau - 1996 - Cited by 22 - Related articles - All 3 versions
#
Texas Medicaid Vendor Drug Program, Low Molecular Weight Heparins ...
enoxaparin:usual duration- 2-8 days, dalteparin: 8 days ... Concurrent administration of multiple low molecular weight heparin products does not provide ...
www.hhsc.state.tx.us/HCF/vdp/Criteria/lmwh.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
#
Low molecular weight heparin in acute coronary syndrome: evidence ...
Time of end point assessment, Day 6, 45, Day 14, 30, Day 8, 43 ... ECG = electrocardiogram; LMWH = low molecular weight heparin; NA = not available; ...
content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/full/35/7/1699/T7 - Similar pages
by PC NA
# [PPT]
Low-Molecular-Weight Heparin and Unfractionated Heparin
File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint - View as HTML
ischemic complications with oral aspirin therapy of therapy: 2 to 8 days ... Biochemistry and pharmacology of low molecular weight heparin. Rosenberg RD. ...
old.lf3.cuni.cz/farmakologie/LMWH.ppt - Similar pages
#
Low-Molecular-Weight Heparin : A Review of the Results of Recent ...
Thrombocytopenia usually begins between 5 and 15 days after heparin is begun ( median ..... Use of low molecular weight heparin in pregnancy. Thromb Haemost. ...
circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/circulationaha;98/15/1575 - Similar pages
by J Hirsh - 1998 - Cited by 54 - Related articles - All 4 versions

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2008-11-15 10:52:19 GMT)
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In a multicenter, open-label, randomized clinical trial, INNOHEP was compared to
unfractionated heparin as initial treatment for hospitalized patients with symptomatic PE not
requiring thrombolytic therapy, embolectomy, or vena cava interruption. Patients were excluded
if they carried an unusually high risk for thromboembolic and/or bleeding events or other
complications. Of the 608 patients treated, 422 had documented DVT. Prior to determination of
study eligibility and randomization, patients were allowed to receive unfractionated heparin; 78%
of the patients received unfractionated heparin at therapeutic doses for up to 24 hours, and an
additional 4% received heparin at therapeutic doses for greater than 24 hours. After
randomization, INNOHEP was administered SC once daily, 175 IU/kg body weight; heparin as
an initial IV bolus (50 IU/kg) followed by continuous IV infusion with the rate adjusted
according to the aPTT (2-3 times control value). For both groups, treatment continued for
approximately 8 days. All patients also received oral anticoagulant treatment starting in the first
3 days which continued to Day 90

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-11-15 14:51:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Inohep can be administered for 10 days, so why not 8 or 15??

Journal of Infusion Nursing - Fulltext: Volume 26(5) September ...
Elderly patients treated with tinzaparin (Inohep) administered once daily (175 anti-X a IU/kg): anti-X a and anti-IIa activity over 10 days. Thromb Haemost. ...
www.journalofinfusionnursing.com/pt/re/jinfusionnurse/fullt... - Similar pages
by PA Howard - 2003 - Cited by 4 - Related articles

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-11-15 14:53:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

LMWH Low Molecular Weight Heparin, given by subcutaneous injection. Fragmin® (dalteparin sodium,) Lovenox® (enoxaparin sodium) and Inohep® (tinzaparin) are examples.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-11-15 14:59:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Adults

Prevention of Blood Clots After Orthopedic Surgery

The usual dose of tinzaparin is 50 units per kg daily starting two hours before surgery and continuing for 7–10 days. Doses of 75 units per kg per day have also been studied.

Prevention of Blood Clots After Hip or Knee Replacement Surgery

Doses vary between different agents. The usual enoxaparin dose is 30 mg every 12 hours starting 12–24 hours after surgery in patients undergoing hip or knee surgery. Alternatively, 40 mg once a day with the first dose given approximately 12 hours before surgery can be used in patients undergoing hip replacement surgery. The average duration of the initial phase of treatment is 7–10 days (up to 14 days). After the initial phase, 40 mg once a day for three weeks is recommended.

For people undergoing hip replacement surgery, 5,000 units of dalteparin are given 10–14 hours before surgery, then 5,000 units 4–8 hours after surgery, followed by 5,000 units daily. The therapy is usually continued for five to ten days (up to 14 days). A physician should be consulted for alternative dosing regimens.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-11-15 15:22:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi again

Can I just say that I have been unable to find any site that states there is a medical protocol in the administration of Tinzaparin (Innohep). It would seem to me that much depends on where the DVT occurs, and what other drugs are involved in treatment.

I am going to stick with "8 or 15 days"

LMWH doses vary by product and are not equivalent. Enoxaparin is generally administered twice a day for treatment of VTE, whereas the indications for tinzaparin and dalteparin are for once-daily dosing. The commonly administered dose for treatment of DVT with enoxaparin is 1 mg/kg SC (subcutaneous) every 12 hours. Tinzaparin is given via SC injection at a dose of 175 IU/kg body weight once daily, and the dalteparin dose is 200 IU/kg SC once daily. Therapy with LMWH is continued for a minimum of 5 days. Generally, laboratory monitoring is unnecessary, although for individuals with renal insufficiency or those with < 50 kg body weight or obesity, plasma antifactor Xa concentrations may need to be monitored.

Where are all the medical doctors??

liz askew
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 2124
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks for your thoughts, Liz.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  xxx::::::::::: used in trials (your refs) but not prescriptions
42 mins
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
PRO (3): xxx::::::::::, Drmanu49, Tony M
Non-PRO (2): B D Finch, GILOU


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Changes made by editors
Nov 18, 2008 - Changes made by myrden:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term
Nov 15, 2008 - Changes made by Tony M:
LevelNon-PRO » PRO
Nov 15, 2008 - Changes made by Tony M:
LevelPRO » Non-PRO


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