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le petit d'homme

English translation: child of man

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:petit d'homme
English translation:child of man
Entered by: Jeanne Zang
Options:
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23:26 Jan 27, 2002
French to English translations [PRO]
French term or phrase: le petit d'homme
This phrase appears in an essay on education.
L'éducation est, fondamentalement, le triple processus par lequel, de façon indissociable, *le petit d'homme* devient un être humain, le membre d'une société et d'une culture à un moment et en un lieu particuliers, un sujet avec son histoire personnelle.
Jeanne Zang
United States
Local time: 16:42
child of man
Explanation:
"Ditte, Petit d'homme" was the principal character in the French version of the 1946 film by the famous Danish filmaker, Astrid Henning-Jensen who died this month. The original, in Danish was titled "Ditte, Menneskebarn", Ditte being the boy's Danish name. The French title is "Ditte, Petit d'homme", and the English title is "Ditte, Child of Man". Over the years, it has become a cult film, and "Petit d'homme" also became a very popular comic book and cartoon character in France.

Denmark - Culture - Cinema - [ Traduire cette page ]
... Henning-Jensen's Ditte Menneskebarn (1946, Ditte, Child of Man) based on ... Together
with his wife Astrid, Bjarne Henning-Jensen gave a portrayal of ...
Selected response from:

Steven Geller
Local time: 22:42
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4Mowgli
Maya Jurt
5 +2child of man
Steven Geller
5 +2a human childMeri Buettner
4 +3Man's offspringBOB DE DENUS
4 +1incipient man//person?
Guy Bray
4 +1the youth (young people, young persons)Deb Phillips
4the child or adolescentPaul Stevens
4human baby
Simon Charass
4 -2Son of manRachel Nkere-Uwem


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the child or adolescent


Explanation:
Just a suggestion - perhaps use both rather than one or the other.

HTH

Paul Stevens
Local time: 21:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 347

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Meri Buettner: see explanation regarding the term appearing within quotation marks
5 mins
  -> Sorry, but this is not inappropriate (especially as Deb Phillips agrees as well)

agree  Deb Phillips
29 mins
  -> Thank you
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
a human child


Explanation:
becomes a human being



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-27 23:34:22 (GMT)
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oops, that\'s \"the human child\" (literal) since \"child\" on it\'s own would not be in quotation marks

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 00:13:22 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

problem : why suggest that a child/baby/offspring is not a human being by saying \"becomes a human being\" right afterwards ? This is why I agree with Maya regarding Kipling (but I think Mowgli is referred to as the \"manchild\" in the book

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 07:58:40 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see now what is meant by the \"fairy aspect\" - not sure whether this notion applies in this case...could be

Meri Buettner
France
Local time: 22:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 165

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Deb Phillips: What do you think of the fairy aspect? Beyond Kipling.
55 mins
  -> I'm not sure of what you mean by "fairy aspect" - Kipling is specific to a child with no exposure to human society

neutral  BOB DE DENUS: An offspring is not by everyone's standard: human. "Le petit de l'homme est un bruit couvert de crasse c'est par l'education qu'il devient humain."..Joking of Course
1 hr
  -> oui, mais "offspring" n'est pas nécessairement le bébé ou l'enfant

agree  reliable
1 day 8 hrs
  -> merci
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
incipient man//person?


Explanation:
A guess. Potential man?

Guy Bray
United States
Local time: 13:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 819

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Deb Phillips
50 mins
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24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Man's offspring


Explanation:
I think is what the author is trying to express

BOB DE DENUS
Local time: 07:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 409

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Meri Buettner: ça fait un peu "progéniture" ou "descendance" non ?
10 mins

agree  Maya Jurt: Exactly.
11 mins

neutral  Deb Phillips: I think this is too anthropological because with education and schooling you are usually concerned with your child.
42 mins

agree  jfrot: yes yes yes
8 hrs

agree  sheila adrian: also yes
11 hrs
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Mowgli


Explanation:
child of man or human offspring.

"le petit d'homme" is the translation of Rudyard Kipling's hero's name, Mowgli.
Schools have been named , scouts use it.
The translation is Mowgli and if you want to translate it back, it is "child of man" or "human offspring".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 00:11:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It seems that Kipling called it \"child of man\". Seebelow and link.

\'Come soon,’ said Mother Wolf, ‘little naked son of mine; for, listen, child of man, I loved thee more than ever I loved my cubs.’

Mowgli\'s Brothers - from The Jungle Book - Rudyard Kipling
... Rudyard Kipling. ... naked son of mine; for, listen, child of man, I loved thee more than
ever ... I will surely come,’ said Mowgli; ‘and when I come it will ...
whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/ prose/JungleBook/mowglisbrothers.html



Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 22:42
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 412

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Meri Buettner: for "child of man" but as "manchild" the term is (as I recall) also found in the Jungle Story
9 mins
  -> Quoting Kilpin, yes, in the book:could not find it.

agree  Deb Phillips: **Jungle Book and Hiawatha were two of my favorite stories as a child. Fairy tales were later.
24 mins

agree  Claudia Iglesias: Je ne peux le dire en anglais, mais le "petit d'homme" est vu ainsi par les autres animaux, donc il est réduit à cet état ou plutôt mis au même niveau que les autres animaux.
3 hrs

agree  Jacqueline McKay
21 hrs
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36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
human baby


Explanation:
Primate’s offspring are called “baby”.

Simon Charass
Canada
Local time: 16:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 226
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56 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the youth (young people, young persons)


Explanation:
Well, the comment about the human child was key to finding this poem by Yeats and a reference to changelings which seems related.

The Stolen Child

WHERE dips the rocky highland
Of Sleuth Wood in the lake,
There lies a leafy island
Where flapping herons wake
The drowsy water-rats;
There we've hid our faery vats,
Full of berries
And of reddest stolen chetries.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's morefull of weeping than you
can understand.

Where the wave of moonlight glosses
The dim grey sands with light,
Far off by furthest Rosses
We foot it all the night,
Weaving olden dances,
Mingling hands and mingling glances
Till the moon has taken flight;
To and fro we leap
And chase the frothy bubbles,
While the world is full of troubles
And is anxious in its sleep.
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's morefully of weeping than you
can understand.

Where the wandering water gushes
From the hills above Glen-Car,.
In pools among the rushes
That scarce could bathe a star,
We seek for slumbering trout
And whispering in their ears
Give them unquiet dreams;
Leaning softly out
From ferns that drop their tears
Over the young streams.
Come away, O human child!
To to waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For to world's morefully of weeping than you
can understand.

Away with us he's going,
The solemn-eyed:
He'll hear no more the lowing
Of the calves on the warm hillside
Or the kettle on the hob
Sing peace into his breast,
Or see the brown mice bob
Round and round the oatmeal-chest.
For be comes, the human child,
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
from a world more full of weeping than you.

Yeats

CHANGELINGS
Changeling babies were thought to be the children of the fairy folk. A human child left unprotected in its cot or cradle could be stolen by an elfin fairy mother, leaving her own changeling child in the crib.
Changeling babies were ugly, and often weak and sick. Fairy mothers thought that they had a better chance being brought up and suckled by the human mother. The human child would be brought up by the fairy folk, and often became a servant in the fairy household.
To protect the crib and the baby from the fairy folk, rowan and mistletoe was tied to the crib or cradle. And iron in the form of a knife was placed under the mattress of the crib. Silver or horn baby rattles with tiny bells were also supposed to protect the child.
A mother with a changeling child, was left to bring up a baby that was ugly and sick. They would gradually become more human, and they would strengthen.
But the changeling child would always be fey, and often had the second sight, passing it down to their own children, and their children's children.
According to folk tale, that is how 'second sight' became a part of humanity, by the interbreeding between human and changeling.
How many of us, I wonder, have been touched by the fairy folk.


Youth - early stage of growth or existence

Progeny - offspring, children or descendants

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 00:26:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I remember \"Manchild\"

Deb Phillips
PRO pts in pair: 27

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Meri Buettner: Manchild is also what I remember (maybe in Disney's version of the Jungle Book - sorry, messed up the name of the book earlier
7 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
child of man


Explanation:
"Ditte, Petit d'homme" was the principal character in the French version of the 1946 film by the famous Danish filmaker, Astrid Henning-Jensen who died this month. The original, in Danish was titled "Ditte, Menneskebarn", Ditte being the boy's Danish name. The French title is "Ditte, Petit d'homme", and the English title is "Ditte, Child of Man". Over the years, it has become a cult film, and "Petit d'homme" also became a very popular comic book and cartoon character in France.

Denmark - Culture - Cinema - [ Traduire cette page ]
... Henning-Jensen's Ditte Menneskebarn (1946, Ditte, Child of Man) based on ... Together
with his wife Astrid, Bjarne Henning-Jensen gave a portrayal of ...



    Reference: http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3230--258648-,00.htm
    Reference: http://www.um.dk/english/danmark/danmarksbog/kap4/4-12-2.asp
Steven Geller
Local time: 22:42
PRO pts in pair: 1246

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Meri Buettner: yes, as Maya already suggested - but manchild is still my favorite, or human child
5 hrs

agree  Jacqueline McKay
19 hrs
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
Son of man


Explanation:
Sexist perhaps, but in symbolic terms, the only real English phrase that is widely used in this sort of high register context.

Rachel Nkere-Uwem
Local time: 21:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 40

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Buzzy: the religious connotations are too strong : this is the equivament of "le Fils de l'Homme" ie Jesus
2 hrs

disagree  Meri Buettner: I'm with Buzzy on this (plus, yes, it's much too sexist)
4 hrs
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