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'peguins'

English translation: péquin

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:'peguins'
English translation:péquin
Entered by: Red Cat Studios

11:13 Jul 2, 2002
French to English translations [PRO]
/ History, jokes, military-civil relations
French term or phrase: 'peguins'
Bonjour. I´m translating a chapter from a book, titled as "Terorism versus democracy" from Emglish into Russian. I´ve made a decision to leave original French text (two phrases). I need translation comment, if possible. Explanations are welcome in English, Spanish, German, Russian. Thanx in advance. That´s my first question in your pair. Grande merci!
There is an amusing anecdote about civil-military hostility in the time of Napoleon. "The French military were at this time extremely arrogant, contemptuously describing civilians as 'peguins' (weaklings)".
Сергей Лузан
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:32
péquin :
Explanation:
I think this is the word better known as 'péquin ' (var. pékin, paican, pécot, pégot,... src Robert historique)

"Péquin



Surnom de civil

Point de "Pékin" dans ce "péquin", mais du provençal "pequin", "chétif, malingre" (en espagnol, "pequeño", en portugais, "pequeno", "petit", etc).
Les soldats de la Révolution, qui venaient du Midi, ont semble-t-il emporté ce mot dans leur besace.

Aujourd'hui, rien de plus imposant que d'entendre un militaire dire "Ah ! c'est un péquin !".
"
http://www.leximot.net/expression.php3?id_expr=1373

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Note added at 2002-07-02 11:29:16 (GMT)
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\"PÉKIN : « On nomme Pékin tout ce qui n\'est pas militaire, comme nous appelons militaire tout ce qui n\'est pas civil. » -- Talleyrand. -- « De vieux dialogues militaires des règnes de Henri III et Henri IV emploient souvent le mot piquini ou péquin pour désigner les adversaires en religion. Ainsi, dans un de ces dialogues, nous voyons un papiste traiter Coligny de pékin; un autre est intitulé les Pékins de Montauban. » -- Ambert, Constitutionnel du 25 juin 1854.
\"
http://abu.cnam.fr/DICO/excent/p.html

cela confirme qu\'il s\'agit bien de ce mot qui a été transcrit par \'péguin\'.

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Note added at 2002-07-02 11:49:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as I see that you have requested explanations in everything but French ;-) -
I have found the same Talleyrand\'s sentence with the word \'pékin\' instead of \'péguin\' - confirming that it\'s the same thing.

Note as well that the word is still used nowadays..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-02 11:52:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

translations into English found in Harrap\'s : civilian, guy, bloke
Selected response from:

Florence Bremond
France
Local time: 06:32
Grading comment
Thanx a lot, Oddie. Your idea (expressed in English) is just wonderful and extremely helpful (my explanations in the box above). Put the word into the glossary yourself ' I am not an expert in French.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2péquin :
Florence Bremond
4 +1pékins or péquins
DPolice
4pushovers
Parrot


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
pékins or péquins


Explanation:
the first form is still used in the French army



pékin ou péquin n. masc. (d'un rad. pek -, indiquant le peu d'importance.). Arg. (vieilli ). Nom péjoratif utilisé par les militaires pour désigner un civil.


© 2001 Hachette Multimédia / Hachette Livre



DPolice
Local time: 06:32
PRO pts in pair: 454

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Thierry LOTTE: yep
5 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
péquin :


Explanation:
I think this is the word better known as 'péquin ' (var. pékin, paican, pécot, pégot,... src Robert historique)

"Péquin



Surnom de civil

Point de "Pékin" dans ce "péquin", mais du provençal "pequin", "chétif, malingre" (en espagnol, "pequeño", en portugais, "pequeno", "petit", etc).
Les soldats de la Révolution, qui venaient du Midi, ont semble-t-il emporté ce mot dans leur besace.

Aujourd'hui, rien de plus imposant que d'entendre un militaire dire "Ah ! c'est un péquin !".
"
http://www.leximot.net/expression.php3?id_expr=1373

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-02 11:29:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"PÉKIN : « On nomme Pékin tout ce qui n\'est pas militaire, comme nous appelons militaire tout ce qui n\'est pas civil. » -- Talleyrand. -- « De vieux dialogues militaires des règnes de Henri III et Henri IV emploient souvent le mot piquini ou péquin pour désigner les adversaires en religion. Ainsi, dans un de ces dialogues, nous voyons un papiste traiter Coligny de pékin; un autre est intitulé les Pékins de Montauban. » -- Ambert, Constitutionnel du 25 juin 1854.
\"
http://abu.cnam.fr/DICO/excent/p.html

cela confirme qu\'il s\'agit bien de ce mot qui a été transcrit par \'péguin\'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-02 11:49:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as I see that you have requested explanations in everything but French ;-) -
I have found the same Talleyrand\'s sentence with the word \'pékin\' instead of \'péguin\' - confirming that it\'s the same thing.

Note as well that the word is still used nowadays..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-02 11:52:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

translations into English found in Harrap\'s : civilian, guy, bloke

Florence Bremond
France
Local time: 06:32
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 753
Grading comment
Thanx a lot, Oddie. Your idea (expressed in English) is just wonderful and extremely helpful (my explanations in the box above). Put the word into the glossary yourself ' I am not an expert in French.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  sduret
4 mins
agree  Linda Young (X)
50 mins
  -> mercio à vous deux
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
pushovers


Explanation:
I've been looking under glossaries and etymology and can't find any clue at all as to the origins of the expression, but the impression held by the soldiers has always been prevalent throughout history whenever a military caste is confronted with a civilian population (with particular contempt for merchants, who pay the taxes for their conscription).

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Note added at 2002-07-02 11:28:21 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Right guys, I found it in Robert.

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 06:32
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1861
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