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Les bonzes du bronze

English translation: Bronzeworks Wise

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12:32 Jul 2, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
French term or phrase: Les bonzes du bronze
This is a slogan for a company making bronze statuettes to be resold on the retail market.
Lise Boismenu, B.Sc.
Canada
Local time: 02:01
English translation:Bronzeworks Wise
Explanation:
an attempt

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Note added at 2003-07-02 13:01:15 (GMT)
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OR just

BONZEWORKS

yes, bonze is monk but it is any wise old guy so it depends how you want to go...if the bronze statuettes are just of BONZES or not

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Note added at 2003-07-02 13:02:07 (GMT)
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BONZEWORKS is a MARTING ANSWER

Where have you been Lise? I went to MOntreal for the weekend, what a great city!

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Note added at 2003-07-02 14:11:30 (GMT)
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BRONZEWORKS is the most elegant and simple and marketing-oriented solution so far.

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Note added at 2003-07-02 14:12:27 (GMT)
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But I kinda like: BRONZWORKS-WISE

as in the expresson: to be wise to something or just to be wise...the pun is maintained

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 14:16:10 (GMT)
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SORRY:

FINAL: BRONZEWORKS-WISE

They are wise about bronze and working with it..

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Note added at 2003-07-02 15:42:51 (GMT)
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I just don\'t understand why people can\'t see that
Bronzeworks-Wise keeps the register, makes a joke and refers to making things out of bronze. It\'s NOT AS FUNNY as the other answers but it does have a marketing tone.

I daresay no one here has written taglines and marketing slogans besides me. Sorry, but it does seem to be the case.

That does NOT mean someone can\'t come up with something better but so far...

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Note added at 2003-07-02 16:11:42 (GMT)
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Note to Christopher:

Any French speaker knows that bonze means someone knowledgeable about something. No need for dictionaries....

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Note added at 2003-07-02 16:13:04 (GMT)
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Example from Canada:
... vers l\'hécatombe électorale. Ce scénario était loin de satisfaire
les bonzes de la politique fédérale. Mais avouons que les ...
iquebec.ifrance.com/cortan/ottawascope/1998/avril.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 16:17:13 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Example from France:

... Le savoir c\'est rasoir!... Tout juste bon à alimenter les ritournelles que les
bonzes de la «Science» iront répétant sans cesse, sans se lasser... ...
perso.club-internet.fr/pmgagey/Epistemologie.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Home.htm - [ Translate this page ]
... Le Savoir c\'est rasoir... Tout juste bon à alimenter les ritournelles que
les bonzes de la Science iront répétant sans cesse, sans se lasser... ...
perso.club-internet.fr/pmgagey/Home.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Selected response from:

Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Grading comment
Certainly seems to fit the context although there are several other good suggestions. Sometimes, the high quality of responses on Kudoz can make a choice so difficult...
So many thanks to all for your comments and input.
Lise

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3the top brass !!xxxCMJ_Trans
5 +1The Fonz of bronzexxxBourth
5> bronz a bonze < or > bonz'n'bronzeJerzy Zubkiewicz
4 +1The Bronze Brothers
Bernard Myers
2 +2Brainy Bronze
William Stein
5 -1Bronzeworks WiseJane Lamb-Ruiz
1 +1The whole point of a slogan
Christopher Crockett
2the beauty of bronze /beauty in bronze
Sheila Hardie
2Bronza!Rowan Morrell
1(buy a ) bonze in bronzeRHELLER


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Bronzeworks Wise


Explanation:
an attempt

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 13:01:15 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OR just

BONZEWORKS

yes, bonze is monk but it is any wise old guy so it depends how you want to go...if the bronze statuettes are just of BONZES or not

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 13:02:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BONZEWORKS is a MARTING ANSWER

Where have you been Lise? I went to MOntreal for the weekend, what a great city!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 14:11:30 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

BRONZEWORKS is the most elegant and simple and marketing-oriented solution so far.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 14:12:27 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

But I kinda like: BRONZWORKS-WISE

as in the expresson: to be wise to something or just to be wise...the pun is maintained

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 14:16:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SORRY:

FINAL: BRONZEWORKS-WISE

They are wise about bronze and working with it..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 15:42:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I just don\'t understand why people can\'t see that
Bronzeworks-Wise keeps the register, makes a joke and refers to making things out of bronze. It\'s NOT AS FUNNY as the other answers but it does have a marketing tone.

I daresay no one here has written taglines and marketing slogans besides me. Sorry, but it does seem to be the case.

That does NOT mean someone can\'t come up with something better but so far...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 16:11:42 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note to Christopher:

Any French speaker knows that bonze means someone knowledgeable about something. No need for dictionaries....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 16:13:04 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Example from Canada:
... vers l\'hécatombe électorale. Ce scénario était loin de satisfaire
les bonzes de la politique fédérale. Mais avouons que les ...
iquebec.ifrance.com/cortan/ottawascope/1998/avril.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-02 16:17:13 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Example from France:

... Le savoir c\'est rasoir!... Tout juste bon à alimenter les ritournelles que les
bonzes de la «Science» iront répétant sans cesse, sans se lasser... ...
perso.club-internet.fr/pmgagey/Epistemologie.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Home.htm - [ Translate this page ]
... Le Savoir c\'est rasoir... Tout juste bon à alimenter les ritournelles que
les bonzes de la Science iront répétant sans cesse, sans se lasser... ...
perso.club-internet.fr/pmgagey/Home.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages



Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in pair: 8576
Grading comment
Certainly seems to fit the context although there are several other good suggestions. Sometimes, the high quality of responses on Kudoz can make a choice so difficult...
So many thanks to all for your comments and input.
Lise

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxCMJ_Trans: but you miss the play on words and the fact that they don't literally mean "bonzes" even though that may be one of their products. It's really rather corny in French
2 hrs
  -> I don't miss the play on words bonze refers to wisdom; bronzeworks-wise, meaning we are wise to bronze works we know them. You don't get the English!
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
(buy a ) bonze in bronze


Explanation:
not sure what tone this slogan should have...these are religious monks



The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

bonze

PRONUNCIATION: bnz
NOUN: A Buddhist monk, especially of China, Japan, or nearby countries.
ETYMOLOGY: French, from Portuguese bonzo, from Japanese bons : bon, ordinary (from Middle Chinese buan, fhan) + s, monk (from Middle Chinese sng, from Sanskrit sagha, collection, brotherhood of monks, from sahanti, sagha-, to put together ( sam, together; see sem-1 in Appendix I + hanti, he strikes; see gwhen- in Appendix I).


RHELLER
United States
Local time: 00:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1582

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxCMJ_Trans: "bonze" is slang for "bigwig" so it's a play on words
17 mins

agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: I agree that Rita has one possible meaning for bonze, it's not just slang FIRST it's monk and then it's slang,
1 hr
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36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the top brass !!


Explanation:
in the hope that they also make brass statuettes !

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Note added at 2003-07-02 13:14:58 (GMT)
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statuesque bronze
(as in statuesque blondes)

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Note added at 2003-07-02 13:17:46 (GMT)
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the tops for bronze
top bronzes


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Note added at 2003-07-02 14:48:20 (GMT)
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or even... the best in bronze

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Note added at 2003-07-02 14:56:21 (GMT)
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or even how about \"THE model company\" ,
I must stop - this is getting addictive



xxxCMJ_Trans
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5264

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rowan Morrell: Top brass is rather nice.
12 mins

neutral  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: Top brass completely misses the point and downgrades the product: Bronze is noble, brass is cheap.
1 hr
  -> it is an attempt to reflect the pun - not a literal translation

agree  Christopher Crockett: Agree with Rowan. It has nothing to do with the original slogan, but "bonze" is not a commonly known word, in Southern Indianer and just wouldn't work in my market --something else entirely should be used.
1 hr

agree  Noel Castelino: Very good IMHO
3 days4 hrs
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52 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Bronza!


Explanation:
A play on the Australian "Bonza!", meaning "great" or "fantastic". However, I'm not sure whether a US or UK audience would get it. But I thought I'd pop it in for a bit of fun. And if the target audience does happen to be Australian, this could a bonza solution! :-)

Rowan Morrell
New Zealand
Local time: 19:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 202

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: "Bonza Bronze" is *GREAT*, Rowan, but only for an Aussie Audience, Alas. Can't be used for a larger target audience, any more than "Bonza Bronzes" can be --just not enough people who understand the word.
45 mins
  -> Thanks Christopher. I agree that using it for a target audience outside Australia (or NZ) most likely wouldn't work. Unless of course the bronze things were actually made in Australia, but I don't think that's the case here.

neutral  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: I disagree with CC: YOu can use other English sometimes I think being so overly categorical is wroing
49 mins
  -> It does rather depend exactly who your target audience is, though.

disagree  xxxCMJ_Trans: but only in the sense that too many people wouldn't get the message which is the whole point of the exercise
1 hr
  -> I understand your reservations, and I had them myself, but I thought I'd put it in anyway on the off-chance that Aussies were among the asker's target audience.
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
the beauty of bronze /beauty in bronze


Explanation:
Or Bronze beauties? Although that sounds like women lying sunbathing on a beach or something similar:-)



Beauty in bronze
Hastings home to many statues

Amy Palser and Linda Garcia
Hastings Tribune

For artist Turner McGehee, there's something special about the bronze statues that dot the city of Hastings and seem to be multiplying as of late.

The three-dimensional statues -- most of which are life-sized -- are so realistic, it seems you could touch one's hand and it would touch back.



HTH


Sheila



    Reference: http://www.cnweb.com/tribune/old/apr01/apr21/news1.html
Sheila Hardie
Spain
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 679
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Brainy Bronze


Explanation:
Like "brains and brawn" (please no hate mail...)

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 00:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1737

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxCMJ_Trans: are your determined to look for trouble!!!!
1 hr

agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: Brainy Bronzes with an s, why not?
2 hrs

agree  Yolanda Broad
1 day13 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The Bronze Brothers


Explanation:
...or perhaps "brethren"?

Logo image: Two little bronze monks wearing (black) dark sunglasses?

Bernard Myers
France
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 26

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: Imaginative, and it retains something of the original reference.
13 mins
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The whole point of a slogan


Explanation:
is to capture the imagination of a target audience with some catchy phrase, play on words, double entendre, jingle, whatever.

In order to do that you can't send your audience off to the dictionary first thing, expecting them to educate themselves re an uncommon word upon which your whole slogan turns.

"Bonze" is such a word.

*I've* never heard/seen it, a more than nodding acquaintance with Things Boodist notwithstanding, and I therefore submit that the percentage of the anglophone population at large which will have a *clue* as to what it means will be miniscule.

"Bonze" is, therefore, out --as well as most plays on its meaning.

CMJ_Trans' "the top brass !!" has a nice ring to it and largely overcomes Jane's good point about "noble bronze" and "base brass".

Rowan's "Bronza!" (or "Bronza Brass"?)is, as I said, really a striking solution, but severely limited in terms of a target audience who would immediately understand it --it would work bonza in Aussieland, on a visceral level (the best, for a slogan), but would be either simply incomprehensible or too cerebral most everywhere else on the anglophone planet.

Jane is wroing, I believe : a slogan, in order to work, to really take off, to really stick in the mind's ear of the target audience *MUST* be *immediately* comprehensible --it can be subtle (depending upon the market), and certainly witty, but it MUST consist of words which are known to the audience....a slogan is not an occasion for Higher Education. Unless the target audience is Highly Educated.

William's "Brainy Bronze" conveys something of the sense of the original, but it *works* because of the sound play.

Bernard's "The Bronze Brothers" does the same, and I like his Logo suggestion ("Two little bronze monks wearing (black) dark sunglasses") and the clients might like it too, if they really want to keep the original imagery of their slogan.

Question to all and to the moderators : At what point do we all cease to be simply helping a collegue out with a translation and begin to be unpaid Brainstormers for a commercial business?

Just curious.

I enjoy these little exercises, btw.

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Note added at 2003-07-02 17:06:40 (GMT) Post-grading
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Amazing.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 02:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 444

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxCMJ_Trans: I agree with all of the above, with brass knobs on!!!!
5 mins
  -> Thanks, CJT.

disagree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: there is nothing learnéd about my translation and it keeps the idea of being knowledgeable about something to be wise and know something; soo transoparent.
58 mins
  -> I certainly didn't mean to accuse you of offering a learnéd translation, Jane. But, speaking for myself alone, "BRONZEWORKS-WISE" does nothing for me and you definitely shouldn't quit your Day Job. Thanks, anyway, for the thought, transoparent or no.

agree  Jerzy Zubkiewicz: brain is not only to be stormed, but most of all USED
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jerzy.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The Fonz of bronze


Explanation:
Only for addicts of séries américaines.

Happy Days, everybody.
Yours,
Big Al.

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Note added at 2003-07-02 14:55:01 (GMT)
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Might have to get copyright approval to use it, though.

xxxBourth
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 18679

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: Ouch.
5 mins
  -> Don't you like it? I thought Fonzie was the essence of cool.

agree  Jane Lamb-Ruiz: This is ever so clever Bourth
50 mins
  -> Heeeey!
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
> bronz a bonze < or > bonz'n'bronze


Explanation:
if too far out disregard

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Note added at 2003-07-02 20:15:11 (GMT) Post-grading
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christopher?

Jerzy Zubkiewicz
Local time: 08:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in pair: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Christopher Crockett: Mmmm... "a bronze"? & can't use "bonz" except in Austraylya.
58 mins
  -> bonzing bronze?
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