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sur rez-de-chaussée

English translation: above a ground floor

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16:39 Feb 18, 2006
French to English translations [PRO]
Real Estate / real estate
French term or phrase: sur rez-de-chaussée
deux bâtiments de 4 et 7 étages sur rez-de-chaussée à usage de bureaux et locaux commerciaux.
Does this mean two building of 4 and 7 storeys plus a ground floor or including a ground floor? I'm unclear because of the difference between the US and UK numbering.
Thanks in advance,
Linebyline
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:53
English translation:above a ground floor
Explanation:
I read this to mean that there are two building, both of which are to be used for office and commercial purposes. One building comprises 4 floors above ground floor, one building comprises 7 floors above ground floor.
I'm a Brit and have been living in France since 1991, and in the fifteen years I have been here, the ground floor is 0, the numbering starting with the "premier étage".
In my experience, the French and the English numbering systems are identical, so adjustment may be necessary if US target reader.

However, watch out for the potential ambiguity. As I read this, the whole of both buildings is to be given over to the use of offices and / or for commerical purposes. Others seem to read this to mean that only the ground floor is for office/commercial purposes.

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Note added at 17 mins (2006-02-18 16:56:38 GMT)
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Or "above ground floor level".

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Note added at 3 hrs (2006-02-18 20:18:00 GMT)
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Although in numbering in the UK we describe the ground floor then 1st floor, 2nd floor etc, when describing the number of storeys, then a building with a ground floor and one level above would be described as a 2 storey building. Thus a suitable rendering might be :

"deux bâtiments de 4 et 7 étages sur rez-de-chaussée à usage de bureaux et locaux commerciaux"

"two buildings, comprising one 5 storey and one 8 storey unit, both to be used as offices or for commercial purposes".


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Note added at 17 hrs (2006-02-19 10:24:36 GMT)
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Use specification is important, particularly for leases. Eg. use for offices only would exclude commercial purposes and mean for example the difference between a "professional" and "commercial" lease, with all that is implied with regard to statutory duration of lease, notice periods, right to grant short fixed-term lease etc. Is this for purchase or lease???
Selected response from:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 17:53
Grading comment
Thanks very much for all your help on this Nikki,
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +6above a ground floor
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 +5with office space on the ground floor
Heather Socie
5 +2yesAlexandre Berger
4 +2= R+4 & R+7 = 5 & 8 stor(e)y buildingsxxxBourth
5atop/on top of the ground floorMatthewLaSon
4 +1on the ground floor
Miguel Falquez-Certain
4the ground floor of two buildings with four and seven stories are used for office and commercial spIC --
3 +1two 4 and 7 floor buildings suitable for office and business premises
Olga Helm


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sur rez-de-chaussée
on the ground floor


Explanation:
An option.

Miguel Falquez-Certain
United States
Local time: 11:53
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  chaplin
42 mins
  -> Merci
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
sur rez-de-chaussée
with office space on the ground floor


Explanation:
I would read it as two building with four and seven stories with office space on the ground floor.

Heather Socie
United States
Local time: 10:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Susana Magnani
41 mins
  -> merci silt!

agree  Miranda Joubioux: I'd go for this.
2 hrs
  -> merci miranda!

agree  Jolanta Tuzel
10 hrs
  -> merci Jolanta!

agree  Kate Hudson
16 hrs
  -> merci Kate!

agree  gad
1 day12 hrs
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
sur rez-de-chaussée
yes


Explanation:
yes, US: 1st floor <=> FR: rez-de-chaussee
don't know about UK

Alexandre Berger
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: US 1st floor = UK ground floor; in French, the system is the same as the UK. Think of 'étage' as = 'upper floor', I find that helps!
7 mins

agree  chaplin: comment dit-on entresol en GB?
39 mins

neutral  Charlie Bavington: Sorry, but how can the answer to a question phrased "is it X or Y?" be "yes" ? Which one do you think it is? :-)
59 mins
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sur rez-de-chaussée
two 4 and 7 floor buildings suitable for office and business premises


Explanation:

it means 4 and 7 floors above the ground floor

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 54 mins (2006-02-18 17:34:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I too am a Brit and have lived in France for 20 years, Nikki is right for the floors above ground explanation - but "à usage " literally means destined to be used for - ie suitable for

Olga Helm
Local time: 17:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes standard lease lingo, and not only suitable for though, as if it is a lease, then it is in fact defining the authorised use of the building.
8 mins
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
sur rez-de-chaussée
= R+4 & R+7 = 5 & 8 stor(e)y buildings


Explanation:
The French often misuse "étage" (normally a "suspended" floor, i.e. not one built on the ground), using it in the sense of "storey). IOW, a 2-storey building (bâtiment à 2 étages (misused)) is a 1-floor building (un étage) on a ground floor (RdC).

It should not be necessary to specify "sur RdC", but people do in an attempt to avoid confusion. However it can introduce more confusion, since buildings are often described as "6 étages sur 2 niveaux de sous-sol", say. If you say "sur RdC", it might also be saying there is no basement. Strictly speaking, a "ground floor" is not a ground floor if it has a basement beneath. Look also at buildings on hillsides that have and "upper ground floor" which is actually the first floor (irrespective of the number of basements)!

You might sometimes get buildings described as "RdC à usage commercial" etc. where the ground floor is shops and the other floors residential, say, but the other use would be specified. Here I am sure we are looking at office buildings, R+4 and R+7, i.e. 5-storey and 8-storey office buildings (with or without basements, we don't know).

xxxBourth
Local time: 17:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 388

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mark Nathan
3 hrs

agree  RHELLER: this is my understanding
10 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
sur rez-de-chaussée
atop/on top of the ground floor


Explanation:
Hello,

"sur" means "au-dessus". Period. Nikki is RIGHT! I am rephrasing the sentence to my liking.

In way of articles, "a" or "the" works fine.

In the US, we have a choice: 1st floor or ground floor. Both are used and well understood.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2006-02-19 05:27:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what "2 bâtiments de 4 et 7 étages" means. I think something is missing here. How can each building have both 4 and 7 floors? I'm confused.

MatthewLaSon
Local time: 11:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 108
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
sur rez-de-chaussée
above a ground floor


Explanation:
I read this to mean that there are two building, both of which are to be used for office and commercial purposes. One building comprises 4 floors above ground floor, one building comprises 7 floors above ground floor.
I'm a Brit and have been living in France since 1991, and in the fifteen years I have been here, the ground floor is 0, the numbering starting with the "premier étage".
In my experience, the French and the English numbering systems are identical, so adjustment may be necessary if US target reader.

However, watch out for the potential ambiguity. As I read this, the whole of both buildings is to be given over to the use of offices and / or for commerical purposes. Others seem to read this to mean that only the ground floor is for office/commercial purposes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2006-02-18 16:56:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or "above ground floor level".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2006-02-18 20:18:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Although in numbering in the UK we describe the ground floor then 1st floor, 2nd floor etc, when describing the number of storeys, then a building with a ground floor and one level above would be described as a 2 storey building. Thus a suitable rendering might be :

"deux bâtiments de 4 et 7 étages sur rez-de-chaussée à usage de bureaux et locaux commerciaux"

"two buildings, comprising one 5 storey and one 8 storey unit, both to be used as offices or for commercial purposes".


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2006-02-19 10:24:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Use specification is important, particularly for leases. Eg. use for offices only would exclude commercial purposes and mean for example the difference between a "professional" and "commercial" lease, with all that is implied with regard to statutory duration of lease, notice periods, right to grant short fixed-term lease etc. Is this for purchase or lease???


Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 17:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 50
Grading comment
Thanks very much for all your help on this Nikki,

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Charlie Bavington: Finally, a clear response to the actual question. And I'm with you - I read it as the whole building being for offices, etc. not just the ground floor.
49 mins

agree  xxxBourth: Yes, but I think there is more idiomatic (of course you were explaining, not translating).
2 hrs

agree  Mark Nathan: Yes, I take office use to apply to the whole building - if it was mixed use then they would have made that clearer.
6 hrs

agree  MatthewLaSon: absolutely, Nikki!
12 hrs

agree  Sylvia Smith
16 hrs

agree  Lesley Clayton
1 day16 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
sur rez-de-chaussée
the ground floor of two buildings with four and seven stories are used for office and commercial sp


Explanation:
I think there is a comm missing or typo between "deux bâtiments de 4 et 7 étages" and " sur rez-de-chaussée à usage de bureaux et locaux commerciaux."

After having added the comma, it SOUNDS to me as "the ground floor of two buildings with four and seven stories are used for office and commercial spaces."





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2006-02-19 11:09:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The above answer is based upon reading out loud to 3 different native French speakers around me, they all confirmed the meaning of

"the ground floor of two buildings of four and seven stories are used for office and commercial spaces."

by hearing it.



IC --
Local time: 17:53
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
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