memoire

English translation: for info

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:(pour) memoire = p.m.
English translation:for info
Entered by: Tony M

03:54 Jul 18, 2018
French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Real Estate / notarized document
French term or phrase: memoire
In a notarized deed of sale for a farm and its equipment, there is a list of equipment and its prices. A number of entries show no price, and in place of the price in Euros we find the word MEMOIRE. What does that mean and how do I translate it into English?
Fabio Barbieri
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:15
for info
Explanation:
I have come across this in other contexts where it simply means in essence "something that needs to be taken into account" but is not given an actual figure. I've seen it sued, for example, in cooking recipes, where it means "you'll need to remember to add salt and pepper, but we're not telling you the exact quantity"

In your context, I imagine they are including things in the list, but not actually assigning them any specific value — they just want the buyer to take into account the fact that all these extra items are included in the overall valuation, even if they are not actually being individually priced. It's just a more formal way of avoiding writing "€ 0" — which psychologically tends to make the reader think it isn't worth anything!

Perhaps you can add up all the figures to see if this makes sense?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2018-07-18 12:00:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Asker, that does indeed seem to be along the same lines, doesn't it? It probably means the items are so old they have long since been depreciated and hence have no 'book' value — if this was originally a business, the figures used for the values might well be taken from the actual accounts, which would explain the distinction being made. And 'occasion' could well mean it had originally been bought second-hand, and so never had any book value in the first place, say (no original invoice from new)
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 15:15
Grading comment
If I could, I would give one or two of these points to Robin Levey, who gave the confirmation I needed. But at any rate you got it right. Thanks to you both.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1indicative amount (depending on final sales price) / for information purposes
Kevin Oheix
2 +2for info
Tony M


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
indicative amount (depending on final sales price) / for information purposes


Explanation:
Provisional sales agreement. Costs itemized in a notarized bill of sale.

"Mémoire" usually refers to the frais d'acte de vente; expenses relating to the deed of sale.

Mémoire de frais (also "état des frais") = Bill of costs, detailed statement of fees.

"Mémoire : État détaillé des sommes dues à un entrepreneur, un artisan, un fournisseur, un homme de justice."

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/mémoire

See page 22: "Montant des frais (estimé)":

https://media.immobilier.notaires.fr/inotr/documents/0/17116...

http://www.reseauetudiant.com/forum-clerc-notaire-etudiant-g...

"Pour mémoire" mentionné dans une déclaration fiscale, un acte notarié tel un inventaire, signifie simplement "à titre de renseignement ou d'information."

So, here it means "for reference", "envisaged/anticipated costs", hence my suggestion.

Kevin Oheix
France
Local time: 15:15
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Notes to answerer
Asker: I can't have explained myself properly. This was not a provisional document and it did not refer to frais to do with the sale, It was the final, notarized deed of sale, and it set out the value of the things being bought. Either I did not understand your answer, or I did not explain myself.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: The problem with "indicative amount" is that there is no price against the entries, according to the asker
2 hrs

agree  GILOU: for reference (dans vos notes). J'ai trouvé cette traduction dans un glossaire juridique
18 hrs
  -> D'accord, merci.
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
for info


Explanation:
I have come across this in other contexts where it simply means in essence "something that needs to be taken into account" but is not given an actual figure. I've seen it sued, for example, in cooking recipes, where it means "you'll need to remember to add salt and pepper, but we're not telling you the exact quantity"

In your context, I imagine they are including things in the list, but not actually assigning them any specific value — they just want the buyer to take into account the fact that all these extra items are included in the overall valuation, even if they are not actually being individually priced. It's just a more formal way of avoiding writing "€ 0" — which psychologically tends to make the reader think it isn't worth anything!

Perhaps you can add up all the figures to see if this makes sense?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2018-07-18 12:00:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Asker, that does indeed seem to be along the same lines, doesn't it? It probably means the items are so old they have long since been depreciated and hence have no 'book' value — if this was originally a business, the figures used for the values might well be taken from the actual accounts, which would explain the distinction being made. And 'occasion' could well mean it had originally been bought second-hand, and so never had any book value in the first place, say (no original invoice from new)

Tony M
France
Local time: 15:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 330
Grading comment
If I could, I would give one or two of these points to Robin Levey, who gave the confirmation I needed. But at any rate you got it right. Thanks to you both.
Notes to answerer
Asker: So far, this sounds like the likeliest answer. Pity I don't know a French notary public.

Asker: Several of the "memoire" items are also marked "occasion", that is probably second-hand, which would make their resale value small or none. This might fit in with your explana


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I suspect it is referring to "mémoire" as in "invoice, cost, etc." and not as in the expression "pour mémoire". Here, from what the asker says, it is just "mémoire" alone.
45 mins
  -> I have seen 'PM' used as well as 'mémoire' on its own.

agree  Kevin Oheix: Sorry, my suggestion is very similar, I was only paying attention to the discussion, so you should have the points, of course ;)
3 hrs
  -> Merci, Kevin ! The first part of your answer is quite different, so I'm sure that may be what helps Asker here :-)

agree  Robin Levey: Your explanation is correct - it refers to items that need to appear in the inventory but which have no formal value (or maybe zero value). More commonly "pour mémoire" in French (or even "p.m.").
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Robin!
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