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1/4 suroit

English translation: West by South

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:ouest 1/4 suroit
English translation:West by South
Entered by: thurayya
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20:30 Jun 28, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / 18th c ms, travelogue, dictated and handwritten
French term or phrase: 1/4 suroit
(yet another question :-)

text: "...nous aperçumes un navir a 3 lieux et d'ouest 1/4 suroit qui étoit notre route que nous quittames pour porter dans l'ouest suroit pour arriver sur luy."

I know that "suroît" is a southwest wind. Still not sure how to translate "d'ouest 1/4 suroit". I am pretty certain that "l'ouest suroit" is "west southwest", but I don't understand the apparent shorthand of "1/4".

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thurayya
United States
Local time: 05:44
south-west 1/4 west
Explanation:
http://www.weights-and-measures.com/xcomcompass.html

The quarter points are at 2.8125 degrees to the others, a 1/128th of the circle. It would be very unusual to find quarter points marked on the compass rose ...
www.geog.port.ac.uk/webmap/hantsmap/hantsmap/cmprose.htm

common compass points, cardinal, half cardinal, false. ... SEbS 1/4 S, (quarter pt.) =, South-East by South 1/4 South, (149·03·45°), (149 1/16°) ...
www.weights-and-measures.com/xcomcompass.html

Well, how about "North by East one quarter point North"? That, too, is a compass point. (In the diagram you'll see a small 'x' is used to represent the word ...
www.directlinesoftware.com/metes.htm



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Note added at 12 hrs (2007-06-29 08:40:30 GMT)
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Well, after taking a bit more time to look through a couple of 19th c. marine dicos in my possession, one gives "est quart nord-est" as "east by north" and the other gives "ouest quart sud-ouest" as "west by south" which is one point south of west, so there you have it.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2007-06-29 08:46:21 GMT)
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the dicos are:

Termes nautique, anglais-français
E Pornain 1890

Tech. Dico of Sea terms, Phrases and Words English-French
W. Pirrie 1895

Selected response from:

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:44
Grading comment
Thanks to all of you, there were more than one possible and good answers. I have chosen West by South, which seems to fit the time period best.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1south-west 1/4 west
Graham macLachlan
4One compass point south of due West
Helen Godfrey
4Info NFGxxxBourth


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Info NFG


Explanation:
This old salt remembers that the compass card was divided into 32 "points" of 11.25 degrees each. These were, going clockwise, North, North by East, North Northeast, Northeast by North, Northeast, Northeast by East, East Northeast, East By North, East, and so on. Just to make it more fun, each point was subdivided into quarter points. For example, the subdivisions between North and North by East were North a quarter East, North a half East, and North three quarters East. A typical course order to the helmsman would be "Steer Nor' Nor'East a half East".
http://www.tighar.org/forum/Highlights101_120/highlights112....

And see
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vavfar/bearing8.html
(table)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-06-28 22:18:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

WSW 1/4 W = 250.3125 °

xxxBourth
Local time: 12:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 142
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ouest 1/4 suroit
south-west 1/4 west


Explanation:
http://www.weights-and-measures.com/xcomcompass.html

The quarter points are at 2.8125 degrees to the others, a 1/128th of the circle. It would be very unusual to find quarter points marked on the compass rose ...
www.geog.port.ac.uk/webmap/hantsmap/hantsmap/cmprose.htm

common compass points, cardinal, half cardinal, false. ... SEbS 1/4 S, (quarter pt.) =, South-East by South 1/4 South, (149·03·45°), (149 1/16°) ...
www.weights-and-measures.com/xcomcompass.html

Well, how about "North by East one quarter point North"? That, too, is a compass point. (In the diagram you'll see a small 'x' is used to represent the word ...
www.directlinesoftware.com/metes.htm



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2007-06-29 08:40:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Well, after taking a bit more time to look through a couple of 19th c. marine dicos in my possession, one gives "est quart nord-est" as "east by north" and the other gives "ouest quart sud-ouest" as "west by south" which is one point south of west, so there you have it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2007-06-29 08:46:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the dicos are:

Termes nautique, anglais-français
E Pornain 1890

Tech. Dico of Sea terms, Phrases and Words English-French
W. Pirrie 1895



Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352
Grading comment
Thanks to all of you, there were more than one possible and good answers. I have chosen West by South, which seems to fit the time period best.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi, I'm reading a bit more carefully now your note ... do you think that the meaning in 1890 would be the same as in 1730? If so, this seems to work best.

Asker: The compass rose site is really interesting. Thanks!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxBourth: Would it not be "quarter west by west-south-west"?//No, you're right, but it might be poss. to put "by" in there. See below. Tho' is it not "WSW 1/4W"
1 hr
  -> yes I did it much to quickly last night, it is in fact "west by south"
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
One compass point south of due West


Explanation:
1/4 is a rhumb or compass point according to Termium but I don't find many examples of rhumb in use. I am pasting the Termium extract below as well as a list of the compass points as provided by the free dic:
3. Subject Field(s)
– Stations, instruments et équipements météorologiques
– Aides à la navigation fluviale et maritime

Subject Field(s)
– Weather Stations and Meteorological Instruments and Equipment
– Marine and River Navigation Aids

Subject Field(s)
– Estaciones, instrumentos y equipo meteorológico
– Ayuda a la navegación marítima y en el rios


rhumb Source CORRECT, MASC

rumb Source CORRECT, SEE OBS, MASC

rumb de vent Source MASC

quart Source MASC

aire de vent Source FEM

aire-de-vent Source FEM rhumb Source CORRECT

point of the compass Source

compass point Source

point of compass Source rumbo Source MASC

vientos de compás Source

cuartas de aguja Source
DEF – Quantité angulaire comprise entre deux des trente-deux aires de vent du compas, et égale à 11° 15'. Source
CONT – Chaque arc de 11° 15' de la circonférence de la Rose des vents porte le nom de «rumb de vent» [...] Source

OBS – Il y a le rumb de vent du compas et le rumb de vent réel ou corrigé, qui diffèrent entre eux d'une quantité égale à la variation, c'est-à-dire à la déclinaison de l'aiguille aimantée. Source

OBS – On a écrit et on écrit encore parfois «rumb». Source
DEF – The angular distance between two successive points of the compass = 11°15'. Source
CONT – Points of the compass. ... A compass card is a circular card that is attached to the needles of a compass. On the [mariner's] compass card are marked the thirty-two points. Source

compass point - definition of compass point by the Free Online ...sou'-west, southwest, SW - the compass point midway between south and west; at 225 degrees. southwest by west, SWbW - the compass point that is one point ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/compass point - 35k - Cached - Similar pages

Hope this helps and good luck!

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Note added at 20 hrs (2007-06-29 17:00:39 GMT)
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Hi Thurayya,
Perhaps this will help: Here is a definition for west by south
n. Abbr. WbS
The direction or point on the mariner's compass halfway between due west and west-southwest, or 101°15 west of due north.
adv. & adj.
Toward or from west by south.

Just read an article on compass points - I think it will help you get an understanding of it. Or check the free dictionary link I posted earlier - imo, this is what it means.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2007-06-29 17:03:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

FINAL: You do not even have to use one compass point: you can simply say West by South.

Helen Godfrey
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks ... I did (finally) look at the site and now have a better understanding.

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Changes made by editors
Jun 29, 2007 - Changes made by thurayya:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/674430">thurayya's</a> old entry - "ouest 1/4 suroit" » "West by South"


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